Broken Bat - Announcements: Commitment to Competitive Play

Forum >> Announcements >> Commitment to Competitive Play

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#83003	07/13/2021 11:01:16 pm	Mar 10th, 2051
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 5019 Administrator	The game has had a couple issues with this over the last few seasons. I would hope everyone is familiar with the Commitment to Competitive Play clause in the rules. Everyone is entitled to manage their club as they see fit – but they also must do so in a way that doesn’t ruin the integrity of the game. If you have any further questions or comments, please address them to the forum thread of the same title. Thanks.

#83004	07/13/2021 11:34:07 pm	Mar 10th, 2051
JJNZ Joined: 12/09/2014 Posts: 1600 Yakima Monster III.3	Nicely written Steve, well said.

#83009	07/14/2021 7:06:39 am	Mar 10th, 2051
wickersty Joined: 05/11/2017 Posts: 1006 Deadwood Perambulators IV.1	Here here!

#83015	07/14/2021 11:56:31 am	Mar 10th, 2051
metalbat13 Joined: 01/18/2016 Posts: 60 Inactive	This was a sore point that I brought up in a "Longest Losing Streak" post on March 28 of this year. I'm glad that Steve has finally addressed this issue.

#83018	07/14/2021 2:54:36 pm	Mar 11th, 2051
FreddyThe2nd Joined: 06/08/2020 Posts: 182 Tombstone Pistoleros Legends	Thanks again Steve for all the work you do and money you spend to provide this awesome free game.

#83031	07/15/2021 2:19:16 am	Mar 12th, 2051
buffmckagan Joined: 12/22/2013 Posts: 658 Scranton Bears Legends	I hope this means teams full of 40+ year olds who are kept to artificially break records for games, hits, etc. might have those guys lost/records struck down. Thanks for all you do Steve!

#83032	07/15/2021 4:02:08 am	Mar 12th, 2051
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2257 New York Lancers V.4	To all the points above - and so say all of us!

#83036	07/15/2021 4:41:00 am	Mar 12th, 2051
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2812 Novi Doubledays IV.8	Sad that this is even an issue, but glad to see it being addressed. Thank you, Steve.

#83046	07/15/2021 2:29:36 pm	Mar 12th, 2051
metalbat13 Joined: 01/18/2016 Posts: 60 Inactive	Does this mean that the owner/GM of the Parker Pirates finally has to walk the plank with Captain Hook?

#83048	07/15/2021 5:40:05 pm	Mar 14th, 2051
shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive	This whole thread seems bizarre to me, and kind of disappointing. The integrity of the cup's group stage has been near zero for the longest time IMO, with very few complaints and zero consequences. Well liked, respected, and vocal owners have publicly admitted to intentionally throwing entire series vs. certain teams in group stage. After using their monster D1 lineups to sweep other teams in the very same cup group. Violating 2 of the 5 bullet points in the "commitment to competitive play" section. But nothing was ever done. Same with the farcical ending to so many regular seasons. Meanwhile, whatever you think of the team MetalBat13 calls out by name, at least they play a fair lineup vs. everyone. Which is more than you can say about some of the complainers in previous threads. I don't get how or why a last place team in D6 can draw the ire of anyone to begin with. They've demoted to the lowest possible position. They don't impact you in any competitive way. (and are ironically a more fair opponent than many teams in higher divisions.) You'll probably never end up in a league with them. And no competent longtime manager should be in D6 for more than a season or 2 to begin with. Career stats were already silly... grouping D6 stats together with D1 stats & weighing them the same. There's nothing to tarnish basically. A much better solution would be to exclude all D6 stats from career stat totals. That would probably take away any incentive there is to be a 2 win team also. The hall monitor, busy body mentality of so many makes me sad. (Not just talking about this thread.) Harassing the very bottom teams, forum bashing them, & trying to get them banned. Again, the ironic thing is that some of the policers/complainers behave in ways that are more detrimental to others' enjoyment than those they complain about. (The hypocrisy!) I've spoken to current & former team owners offsite who feel exactly that way, they just don't post on the forums here. Updated Thursday, July 15 2021 @ 5:40:48 pm PDT

#83059	07/16/2021 4:32:42 am	Mar 14th, 2051
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5222 Waterloo Dinosaurs II.2	Ya. I immediately thought of the cup as well. Rules are necessary to make expectations clear. They don't necessarily reflect badly on the group. But the only rule in there is about stripping teams. The rest is so subjective as to be unenforceable. Advice rather than rules. (Actually the other statement in the doc that passes as a rule is the bit about naming potential cheaters on the forum. Sort of funny we can't even follow that one in this thread).

#83088	07/16/2021 8:19:03 am	Mar 14th, 2051
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9742 Haverhill Halflings II.1	Personally I don't think anyone should have two teams (just causes too many issues). At the very least it should be considered cheating to claim a player you just cut from another team (we've seen a lot of that in that past). I also don't like people having thematic teams that aren't competitive. But Steve allows that. People who strip teams or intentionally lose games are just making the game unfun for everyone. Other than one team bragging about how they were winning with scrubs every round, I haven't seen people boasting about throwing games. There is a big difference between throwing a game to play kingmaker and putting in developing players to improve your team in the long run once you've already locked (cup or league). Its all about playing to win. Teams can play the short game or the long game, but everyone should be playing competitively. I personally put in my developing players from the start for Cup play. But if it looks like I am in danger of not advancing, I do bringing in the A squad. I do that BECAUSE I am playing competitively. Conversely, If I have already locked first, fourth, or fifth place in league play, I am going to put in developing players. Again, that is BECAUSE I am playing competitively. There is a strategic choice in who you play when. If you put your best players in the cup, you are risking injury, which will make you less competitive in the league. If you never play developing players, they will never develop. These are the types of strategic choices real life teams need to make, and we have to make them as well. If someone chooses to keep their stars back out of the Cup because they want to be more competitive in the league, that is a strategic choice based on competitive play. That is a far cry from someone dropping all the POT 14s and 15s off their squad and fielding a team of POT 9s. There is no long term nor short term strategy happening there. Its really just about having integrity. Updated Friday, July 16 2021 @ 8:32:45 am PDT

#83094	07/16/2021 9:07:43 am	Mar 14th, 2051
metalbat13 Joined: 01/18/2016 Posts: 60 Inactive	Equating cup games to league games is like claiming that you can play the National Anthem on a picadillo instead of a piccolo. Milo Metalbat has never "thrown" a cup series. Nevertheless, for inadvertently nicking the sensibilities of those participants who find it OK to purposely lose 100+ league games in a row, the Atlantic City owner apologizes profusely. As compensation, he will also offer free hot-oil, full-body massages at his New Jersey adult entertainment centers to all parties offended. This includes complimentary services for frozen stiffs from the arctic tundra of Wisconsin, overripe three-ton Napoleonic reptiles, and every player aged 36 and older (25 total) currently on the roster of the intentionally inept lower-division team previous mentioned in this thread.

#83098	07/16/2021 9:23:58 am	Mar 14th, 2051
garfscores Joined: 10/13/2014 Posts: 491 Battle Creek Sting III.4	See you at the Bada Bing!

#83104	07/16/2021 10:55:58 am	Mar 14th, 2051
Jimmy W Joined: 05/01/2020 Posts: 243 Inactive	Guys I suppose there could always be a cup rule ie minimum collective pot score of say 105 So if you wanted to stick say 6 x 10 pots - if you have that many? - you'd then have to play 3 x 15's (if you have that many) just to make it add up to 105. Which may then - at least seemingly - a little fairer as I'd imagine if that were the case most would go with maybe their lesser 11/12s and thus not risk their bigger players. Jim

#83110	07/16/2021 2:19:13 pm	Mar 14th, 2051
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9742 Haverhill Halflings II.1	Basing anything on POT is dangerous as POT doesn't really guarantee anything. Worst case it would hurt savvy teams who manage to find and field good low POT players. Best case it would be ineffective. I really don't think the Cup is the primary concern here. Its more about people dismantling teams or throwing the league because they think it would be funny to have the all time lowest record. Or signing up for bot teams in their league, and intentionally losing so they can promote with their sub-par team. Updated Friday, July 16 2021 @ 2:20:14 pm PDT

#83117	07/16/2021 3:39:23 pm	Mar 15th, 2051
NotGood88 Joined: 08/28/2020 Posts: 516 Prattville Black Cats Legends	I agree with Rock The cup is pointless. I don't see any reason to play your regulars unless you want them to be injured. If I play Clark over Bailey so Clark can get reps, that's not violating what Steve has said. Putting all 7 POT 62 yo players on the field is what he's talking about.

#83121	07/16/2021 4:39:45 pm	Mar 16th, 2051
timothy Joined: 03/18/2020 Posts: 205 West Fargo Turtles IV.2	Cup is fun. I don't see why it's innately less fun than your league season!

#83142	07/17/2021 1:10:24 pm	Mar 16th, 2051
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9742 Haverhill Halflings II.1	Each owner to choose what they want to prioritize. The Cup can be great fun. I try to do well in both. I play developing players in the group stage because 90% of the time I can still advance doing such. Its a calculated risk to get my players Experience without wasting League games (where EVERY game is critical).

#83156	07/18/2021 4:44:49 am	Mar 18th, 2051
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2257 New York Lancers V.4	This thread (I believe) was NOT brought about due to concerns with actual game play - although a reminder every once in a while never hurts - but in response to at least one relatively new user who was granted more than one account in a short period of time, then proceeded to dump ALL of each franchise's prospects, in addition to some of the best players and managers. This was brought to Steve's attention by me and several others, and the user has had their teams removed. Why it happened in the first place I have no idea, and isn't my business. Some teams all around Broken Bat benefited from the mess by bolstering their rosters with some sweet pickings, but it's a mess best avoided. As to the Cup - NO team is under any obligation to field their best players in Cup matches. You have a 1/756 chance of winning the competition, and if you've played this game long enough you have every likelihood of thinking it's something of a lottery, otherwise teams in the top two levels should win it most every year which clearly isn't the case (my 108-win, 2041 Legends winning team went 8-12 in the Cup that year, with a fully competitive lineup, against mostly LLVI teams!). Given that, it has long been a legitimate strategy for GMs to field developing players in Cup games in order to improve their progress, progress which is often handicapped by the difficulty in finding regular playing time for them in League play (while trying to promote, tread water or avoid demoting). You really cannot field a competitive team for League and Cup play and develop all of your best prospects at the same time (if you have a full roster), year-in and year-out. It just doesn't work like that. You have to balance success with team building, and twenty games of Cup play is a great way of improving your developing players with no threat to your league status. I'm also totally on-board with what metalbat13 said, and good on them for having the cojones to say it. What exactly is 'fair' about a team which has won 13 games in FOUR seasons, and which has not a single majors player under age 32 (and most far older than that, in the 41-48 age range)? It may not mean anything for the Cup (hooray!) but in a 12-team league that provides an unbalancing factor. League VI.27 East was decided by RD last season, and by a grand total of SIX runs: Waldorf had the advantage over Aberdeen. In games the two teams played against Parker the advantage was 143-108 to Waldorf. That's (let me do the math for you) an advantage of 35 runs, in a league decided by 6 runs. You want the capper? One of Parker's three wins was against Aberdeen. Do you think they found that fair? Bashing people for making legitimate complaints doesn't reflect well on the accuser. These complaints are genuine attempts to improve the game, and not see teams make a mockery of the game or get ruined by people who are simply out to follow their own agenda for inane reasons. And if career stats really are silly, what point in playing a 72-year old, 0 SI player? Does that really provide any competitive advantage? How about automatic retirement for every player who turns 38, will that help? This is a great game and one of the best communties on the interwebs, let's keep it that way.

#83161	07/18/2021 8:09:39 am	Mar 18th, 2051
NotGood88 Joined: 08/28/2020 Posts: 516 Prattville Black Cats Legends	Cup is fun. I don't see why it's innately less fun than your league season! Cup is fun, but it's also effectively an exhibition

#83163	07/18/2021 8:48:39 am	Mar 18th, 2051
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2812 Novi Doubledays IV.8	Trying to win the Cup and actually winning it are pretty unrelated in my view. I just came off a long streak of advancing out of group play and I've never won the Cup. I've gotten to the final four once a long time ago. I rarely make it more than a couple rounds into elimination play. I always fielded my best team during that run including a three time Legends winning team. The Cup highlights the RNG-ness of short series play in BB. The playoffs are pretty random in those short samples as well. It's just part of how this game works. The length of the regular season tends to smooth that out and presents a better picture of who has the best team. The Cup is just not equipped to do that. For me, the main issue with a Commitment to Competitive Play is between baseball decisions and non-baseball decisions. If you're using the Cup to develop players, that's a baseball decision. Is it ideal from a sportsmanship perspective? No, but it does fit within the framework of improving your team. If you have two teams and you strip the roster of one in hopes of landing some of those players on your main team, that's a non-baseball decision. It has negative impacts on several areas of the game.

#83166	07/18/2021 9:44:01 am	Mar 18th, 2051
shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive	@amalric You're free to play whoever you want in the cup. No one's trying to get you banned. But do you really not grasp that some people find what I originally posted incredibly unfair & beyond inconsiderate? "throwing entire series vs. certain teams in group stage. After using their monster D1 lineups to sweep other teams in the very same cup group." A lot of people find that makes a mockery of the cup & ruins their enjoyment. While others are ok with it. The "I'm going to do what's best for me regardless of how it impacts anyone else" type attitude. Anyway, all I was saying is that the team that you're proud to bash at least puts out an equally bad lineup vs. everyone. How is that disputable? Answering your "Do you think they found that fair" part... All teams in that division faced the same lineup, right? If so, it's much more fair than some other leagues. Where a team plays their final series vs. Team X using all their best players. Then finishes the season vs. Team Y using a lineup of severely undeveloped prospects. Look I'm not necessarily a huge fan of the worst ever team. I'm just saying that some of those throwing stones also behave in ways that ruin the fun of others as well. Sometimes to an even bigger extent / impact (in the opinion of some). Have to admit the "cajones to say it" part of your message makes me sad. Like it's somehow tough and macho and admirable to punch down & publicly ridicule. Hope I'm misreading that. Look, why not just contact Steve directly? Plus the whole rules thing says: "If you believe another club is cheating, please PM (private message via BB mail) the admin. We would request that you don't post allegations of cheating or other types of misconduct on the forum."

#83203	07/19/2021 9:55:44 am	Mar 20th, 2051
shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive	Didn't mean for my last post to come off as harshly as it maybe does, so apologies to alarmic7. Same thing with my first post & metalbat13. Anyway let's agree to disagree, or whatever. And I'll try bow out of this thread for good hopefully :P

#83205	07/19/2021 11:54:36 am	Mar 20th, 2051
Ced Joined: 11/07/2014 Posts: 655 Denver Broncos IV.4	Some good comments from the freshmen and the seniors. I guess I'd say that if you aint been in the lowbie leagues like LL6, then there isn't much of a frame of reference, so go easy on them ballclubs, some of those leagues are tough to "handicap" and you do get stuck down there. Then you might have multiple promotions afterwards and they set the world alight with a mini competitive dynasty for a few seasons. I got relegated back in 2036 chasing that damn cup, going to the championship round. Have won everything but the cup. Charge it (the relegation) to the game. Updated Monday, July 19 2021 @ 12:19:11 pm PDT

#83221	07/19/2021 3:46:12 pm	Mar 23rd, 2051
Chicken Fillet Joined: 04/01/2020 Posts: 167 Inactive	What about just having a Super Cup Tournament right after the season ends, instead? That way nobody gets hurt during the season and we can all just play for fun with our best lineups, and maybe one last time with our older players.

#83255	07/20/2021 8:03:09 am	Mar 25th, 2051
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9742 Haverhill Halflings II.1	I like the trade-offs the Cup introduces to the season. I don't really see it as an issue that some people try harder than others to compete.

#83262	07/20/2021 1:37:42 pm	Mar 25th, 2051
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2257 New York Lancers V.4	shikago and I exchanged a few very pleasant PMs, and we're all good. What looks like differences of opinion often turns out to be a good deal less so after a good discussion. As for this season's Cup, New York went down 1-3 to a LLVI team with very average pitching, despite fielding a very strong lineup and our 2-5 pitchers. Maybe we're just not that good!

#83439	07/24/2021 8:04:10 am	Apr 10th, 2051
JV-Tosshin Joined: 11/11/2020 Posts: 303 Biloxi Thresher Sharks IV.8	To add to Ced's very legitimate note on LL6 teams: It is very hard to even out things down there, and LL6 is easily the most lopsided place, because sometimes there's just one team that is spiralling and not recovering, and then they can recover for 3 games and ruin one team's season. Last season, when inter-divisional play ended, I was the only team in the entire East that was above 500, and I was 16 runs above. Last place in the West would've been 2nd in the East, basically. It's difficult, if not likely impossible, to police to ensure even competition. In the higher leagues, at least most teams have some semblance of structure. That's baseball, that's life sometimes. Deliberately jettisoning everything for seemingly no reason that is deliberate intent to schew competition, as is (I'd argue) staying in LL6 with a team of all-40+-years old. Fielding some developing players in the cup is... Also deliberate, but at least it's done with a goal of league competitiveness down the line. And the cup really is weird. My LL6 team went 2-2 with a Legends team a couple of seasons back, then last season, while improving across the board, I fell 1-11 in the cup right out the gate. The cup is fun, but it is incredibly unpredictable.

#91502	05/15/2023 5:57:01 pm	Sep 28th, 2059
GM-Paradox Joined: 03/10/2023 Posts: 10 Inactive	https://brokenbat.org/game/4897515 Is this margin of victory some type of record?

#91617	05/25/2023 7:00:39 am	Nov 2nd, 2059
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2257 New York Lancers V.4	My momma always said, "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

#91687	05/31/2023 5:08:37 am	Jan 22nd, 2060
GM-Paradox Joined: 03/10/2023 Posts: 10 Inactive	Looks like division VI-27 just got a lot harder with the addition of a great team builder taking over a franchise....a welcome change from the former P.P. franchise Updated Wednesday, May 31 2023 @ 5:19:37 am PDT