Broken Bat - Suggestions: Overseas Money

Forum >> Suggestions >> Overseas Money

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#66188	06/09/2019 7:59:11 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Issue: Due to its smaller size, the Asian pool provides a higher percentage chance at finding a good player. Due to its smaller size, the Asian pool does not provide this chance for very long. It is a good choice for those who arrive early, a poor choice for those who arrive later. Historically, one of the big downsides/risks of the pool was drafting a position player who did not have appropriate skills for his position knowledge. The new draft reveals arm and range, so this risk has been all but eliminated. The Asian pool is now largely without risk (aside from whiffing the list). You can see how many players have been chosen. Uncertainty in potential bars and the possibility of a prospect developing poorly are both largely irrelevant to Asian prospects that are near full development at draft. Inspiration: In MLB clubs are allocated International money which limits how much they can spend on players not subject to the draft. The intention is to keep clubs with deep pockets from dominating the market, and allow smaller market teams to also participate. Suggestion: - create a new currency (“overseas money”) - give teams $50,000 overseas money each financial update ($500,000 per annum) - require $1,000,000 overseas money to pick from the Asian pool (1 pick every 2 seasons) - cap accumulated overseas money at $3,000,000. (Maximum stashed picks = 3) - optional: only charge fee for rounds 1-3 Benefits: - would limit access to the pool by early birds - would increase the longevity of the pool (making it a better option for those who arrive later) - would increase strategy. Choosing when and how to use the currency would pose interesting decisions Negatives: - introducing a new currency may add unwanted complexity / clutter to balance sheets and elsewhere - limiting access to the Asian pool may frustrate “theme teams” going for an all Asian roster Thoughts?

#66191	06/09/2019 8:16:50 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	How about limiting access to the Asian pool to teams who had a losing record the previous season? It could serve as a quick and dirty proxy in BB for the usual pro sport practice of awarding the best draft positions to the worst teams.

#66192	06/09/2019 8:22:43 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Or, if you go with the solution I proposed in the other thread you eliminate the early bird advantage, and thus special handling wouldn't be required. Everyone who selected the Asian pool would have the same odds of getting a good player.

#66194	06/09/2019 8:27:43 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	I've sworn off reading draft threads

#66197	06/09/2019 8:46:25 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	losing records I would like the use of the Asian pool to be more strategic. Use it when you need it, not just because you can. Ie., “My 2B prospect is a bust. Maybe I should use the Asian pool to find something better.” Or “Man, I haven’t been able to draft enough SP, and now I’m getting thin. Time to try the Asian pool.” Vs. “I’m first to arrive. Asian pool here I come.” Or “We lost. Asian pool here I come.” i proposed Just a thought. But could we use this thread to discuss this idea, and your thread to discuss your idea?

#66199	06/09/2019 9:02:25 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	Instead of a new currency, why not just strip it down to a signing pool of cash allotted to each team to start the season? Depending on how we play with that number and the numbers we assign to each pool or prospect, a player with Lee's combination of high POT and high SI could take up a huge chunk of the signing pool. Signing him would limit your choices the rest of the draft to prospects with either lower POT or lower SI. [EDIT] Since Asian players with high POT will likely start with equally high SIs, whether to draft from that pool or not would be a tougher decision than it is now. Updated Sunday, June 9 2019 @ 9:05:09 am PDT

#66202	06/09/2019 11:15:15 am	Mar 18th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	If the Asian pool is too OP with this version of the draft, why not just nerf it. All these other ideas seem like adding a lot of unnecessary complexity to the game.

#66205	06/09/2019 1:05:33 pm	Mar 18th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	My concerns about allocation: - many (established) teams would happily unload their entire allotment on 1 pick and skip the rest of the draft. - it might be too big a change from what we have. A team that has a nice 3rd round pick but not the money to sign him could be extremely frustrated given our historical method of drafting - it’s unforgiving. If you make a mistake it affects the rest of your draft season. Especially pertinent for new/inexperienced teams - might be too much added complexity (I was worried about the added complexity of overseas money; allocation is another tier entirely) If the Asian pool is OP How would you nerf the Asian pool? Make the players crap? Make it College pool East? I don’t have a problem with the Asian pool. It potentially serves a very useful purpose - adding a complimentary piece when needed. It shouldn’t be a team building tool. This is a long term strategy game that emphasizes planning. There is no planning to parachuting a 14-15 pot into your rotation or lineup every season because you hit refresh faster than the other 50 guys who were online. The pool doesn’t need to be adjusted imo. Access needs to be limited. Biased of course, but I think my suggestion is great. . Easy to understand. Easy to implement (no changes to the draft mechanism). Adds realism. Adds strategy. What’s not to like?

#66207	06/09/2019 1:49:04 pm	Mar 18th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	I see what you're saying. I think it would add a ton of strategy, but it would be a far reaching change after we just had one. I think we're on the same page with the Asian pool. As it is, it's basically a lawful exploit. It needs a moderating mechanism of some kind. I think it serves a function and I wouldn't be for changing it's current makeup, just the access to it.

#66208	06/09/2019 2:00:31 pm	Mar 18th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	but it would be a far reaching change after we just had one I would contest that. I do not consider this a major change. I view it as a minor tweak necessitated by the draft change. The Asian pool was good. Now it’s better. (Relative to the other pools, it gained much more from the draft change). Because it is so time sensitive access needs to be limited. I don’t see any cascading consequences. On average, half the player base will still have access to the Asian pool each season. It’s still going to get fished out quickly. Difference is it will be different fishermen.

#66212	06/09/2019 5:16:52 pm	Mar 20th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	You said it yourself - the Asian pool. It potentially serves a very useful purpose - adding a complimentary piece when needed. So why not cap the players at a lower potential. POT 12 or 13. Good enough that they can help fill a vital need on a team, but not good enough that you can pull super stars. There could still be the occasional star, but if the majority of round one players are POT 12 or lower, it won't be abused. They can still be Major ready, just not Major ready super stars. That is how I would nerf it.

#66216	06/09/2019 7:31:50 pm	Mar 20th, 2041
Longviewess Joined: 09/23/2018 Posts: 111 Frederick Keys III.3	I fail to see why having a BB equivalent of Ichiro or Nomo in the Asian pool makes it OP? Fully formed star players have transitioned from Japan to MLB in the past. There was just a massive thread about making the catcher position more realistic to actul baseball. Yet now here it is being argued that a talent pool (Asian) which is arguably more MLB ready than any other MLB talent pool IRL, needs nerfed. So which is it? Does BB need to be more like real baseabll or less? Or does the answer depends on which position best suits the person taking it (i.e. everyone on the internet)?

#66217	06/09/2019 8:08:56 pm	Mar 20th, 2041
Cactusguy21 Joined: 07/25/2017 Posts: 815 Presque Isle Vikings III.4	I agree with Rock. There can still be stars, but i think that 12 and 13 POT guys should be super common and make it harder to find Ichiro.

#66224	06/09/2019 9:37:37 pm	Mar 20th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	depends on which position best suits Hehe. I find it a little amusing almost no one in the thread has referenced the original post. Everyone has their own agendas to press. Probably half the posts in here are me replying to counter suggestions. it won’t be used Fixed that for you. I don’t use the Asian pool myself (twice I believe). I like to think I don’t have a lot of bias about it’s future. Amoung the suggestion types i am resistant to are ones that lower fun. Turning an entire draft pool into journeymen would seem to fit that category. Do either Rock777 or Cactusguy know how many Ohtanis there are out there every season (too many ... duh ). I went to look through the first round, but with the new draft system it seems player IDs are assigned when created as amateurs rather than when they are drafted. Doing draft research is going to be more difficult than it used to be. The best picture might come from revisiting last season’s draft. I actually have that data summarized ... somewhere.

#66226	06/09/2019 11:32:57 pm	Mar 20th, 2041
FreddyTheEye Joined: 11/11/2014 Posts: 625 Inactive	Issue: Due to its smaller size, the Asian pool provides a higher percentage chance at finding a good player. Due to its smaller size, the Asian pool does not provide this chance for very long. It is a good choice for those who arrive early, a poor choice for those who arrive later. Historically, one of the big downsides/risks of the pool was drafting a position player who did not have appropriate skills for his position knowledge. The new draft reveals arm and range, so this risk has been all but eliminated. The Asian pool is now largely without risk (aside from whiffing the list). You can see how many players have been chosen. Uncertainty in potential bars and the possibility of a prospect developing poorly are both largely irrelevant to Asian prospects that are near full development at draft. Inspiration: In MLB clubs are allocated International money which limits how much they can spend on players not subject to the draft. The intention is to keep clubs with deep pockets from dominating the market, and allow smaller market teams to also participate. Suggestion: - create a new currency (“overseas money”) - give teams $50,000 overseas money each financial update ($500,000 per annum) - require $1,000,000 overseas money to pick from the Asian pool (1 pick every 2 seasons) - cap accumulated overseas money at $3,000,000. (Maximum stashed picks = 3) - optional: only charge fee for rounds 1-3 Benefits: - would limit access to the pool by early birds - would increase the longevity of the pool (making it a better option for those who arrive later) - would increase strategy. Choosing when and how to use the currency would pose interesting decisions Negatives: - introducing a new currency may add unwanted complexity / clutter to balance sheets and elsewhere - limiting access to the Asian pool may frustrate “theme teams” going for an all Asian roster Thoughts? I totally agree with the result you are trying for and I don't have a better idea. But..hehe, The entire post could have been "Idea: all teams can only use the Asian pool once every two season" I don't think many see the need for the clutter of accumulating foreign money etc. Result imo : the race to draft still exists but with less (roughly half) the managers involved each season. I would like the use of the Asian pool to be more strategic. Use it when you need it, not just because you can. Ie., “My 2B prospect is a bust. Maybe I should use the Asian pool to find something better.” Or “Man, I haven’t been able to draft enough SP, and now I’m getting thin. Time to try the Asian pool.” 100% agree!

#66228	06/10/2019 1:09:55 am	Mar 20th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	I would contest that. I was withdrawing my offshoot idea, not commenting on the original idea, Seca

#66232	06/10/2019 5:33:29 am	Mar 20th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I think overseas money is a bad idea. I think journeymen is fun. Because it is a strategic choice. Do you go for a young unproven talent who might turn out to be a superstar, or that 26 year old journeyman from the Asian league who is a proven commodity.

#66233	06/10/2019 5:40:43 am	Mar 20th, 2041
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5207 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Appreciate the feedback Freddy. I see what you are saying about once every two years, but I do think there is a difference. Eg., a team heading into a rebuild might want to cluster their picks over 2 seasons rather than spreading them over 5. When I come up with a suggestion or view someone else's suggestion, I work my through the following questions: Is the issue real? Does the suggestion address the issue? Is it implementable? Does it add strategy/decision making? Does it add realism? Does it make the game more fun/enjoyable? A proper critique of the original post would have started at question 1. I can point to a high profile example, but one team isn't proof. I didnt feel solid proof was really needed, as all the other questions were answered yes. I think overseas money would be a nice addition to the game regardless of whether the Asian pool is an issue or not. Nerfing the Asian pool tho is a different story. Once I get past implementable, all my answers are no. It is a cod liver oil suggestion. Those need pretty solid proof that there is a problem. It's a pretty busy week at work for me. But when I get a chance I'm going to revisit the past few draft years with an eye towards the Asian pool. Quality, draft order, teams. Get a better sense of if this has historically been a problem. No rush on the idea. I'll be back when I have a little more evidence to work from.

#66238	06/10/2019 7:03:30 am	Mar 20th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	In my opinion: Does it add strategy/decision making? nerfing - Definitely. Very clear trade-off of potential versus immediate need. money - probably not. Why would everyone not just spend it on their first round pick anyhow? Does it add realism? nerfing - Defiantely. The MLB isn't flooded with hundreds of Ichiro's every season. money - not really. The money isn't even attached to our budget money. Its just monopoly money. Does it make the game more fun/enjoyable? nerfing - yes. Trade-offs and real choices are what make the game fun. money - no. extraneous complication that adds complexity for no real reason. Better off just saying you only get one pick from the Asian pool if you are going to go this direction.

#66262	06/10/2019 8:30:48 pm	Mar 25th, 2041
hurstdm Joined: 01/18/2017 Posts: 576 Murfreesboro Moo Cows VI.5	I'm not sure there's a problem with the current way the Asian pool works. (Full disclosure: The Cows have picked the Asian pool in the first round most years.) Why shouldn't some advantages accrue to teams that pay attention? We may have whiffed on it this year (but who really knows anymore) and I think it was completely full when I drafted. I'm fine with this kind of draft luck. Even if I accept the problem, I disagree with adding this complexity. In real life, players posted internationally are generally expensive. Perhaps just make Asian players come attached to a real salary - not just $0.2M? $3.0M? Or even something like a sliding scale, depending on what round you use the Asian pool: 1st round = $4M 2nd round = $3.5M 3rd round = $3M 4th round = $2.5M 5th round = $2M 6th round = $1.5M 7th round = $1M 8th round = $0.5M Picking one of these players would put him on your team at a salary equal to whatever round you picked in. No cheapy-cheap-cheap time for older Asian players. Plus, you might have to make the tradeoff at draft time of whether you're willing to pay for THAT. Maybe it could cost cold hard ca$h to even pick from this pool? $1M? $2M? A transfer fee of sorts paid to the original club?

#66263	06/10/2019 11:21:56 pm	Mar 25th, 2041
Frankebasta Joined: 09/15/2013 Posts: 889 Kodiak Mules III.3	+1 it makes a lot of sense! even in our RL simulation, Asian pool is supposed to be made of Professional players, moving to BrokenBat leagues. It's not realistic they would accept a minimum wage salary.

#66265	06/11/2019 1:54:34 am	Mar 25th, 2041
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	I think hurstdm's idea should be implemented ASAP. Just makes sense. Doesn't preclude doing something like Seca's suggestion, but it's a solid first step. Updated Tuesday, June 11 2019 @ 2:51:25 am PDT

#66266	06/11/2019 8:06:23 am	Mar 25th, 2041
Cactusguy21 Joined: 07/25/2017 Posts: 815 Presque Isle Vikings III.4	What if, instead of something complex like the original suggestion, maybe Asian players just come with a salary already attached? So instead of drafting a guy at the usual 0.2m, you might get one at 1.6m or 3.4m or something. That's a really simple fix that could make Asian less good without any artificial restrictions.

#66267	06/11/2019 10:41:34 am	Mar 25th, 2041
Ced Joined: 11/07/2014 Posts: 630 Denver Broncos IV.4	Exactly what I was thinking. Ichiro Suzuki made 5 million as a rookie. Plug-and-play players in Broken Bat should get paid differently. Start them internationals well above $0.20M. I'd say $1.20M for all.

#66279	06/11/2019 6:23:34 pm	Mar 30th, 2041
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9616 Haverhill Halflings III.1	In 2006, the Redsox paid 51 Million dollars just to talk to Daisuke Matsuzaka. In real life teams pay big $$$ without even a guarantee of landing a contract for Asian League players. hurstdm's suggestion makes sense to me. Those guys should come with inflated salaries. Maybe even a bit higher on the early side than hurst was suggesting. Could be more like: 1st - 6M 2nd - 5M 3rd - 4M 4th - 3M 5th - 2M 6th - 1.5M 7th - 1M 8th - 0.5M

#66412	06/16/2019 6:47:45 am	Apr 14th, 2041
Cactusguy21 Joined: 07/25/2017 Posts: 815 Presque Isle Vikings III.4	Bump so admin sees this and at least considers it.