Game Date: May 31st, 2064
Discussion Forum
Forum >> Discussions >> Waiver Claim system 
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| Post ID | Date & Time | Game Date | Function |
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| #4582 | 09/11/2013 5:42:09 pm | ||
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SoftShoe14 Joined: 05/28/2013 Posts: 23 Inactive 
| Does anyone have any input on what exactly this Waiver Claim system is and how it will work? Thank's in advance.. | ||
| #4584 | 09/11/2013 9:16:59 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator 
| Well, the first priority has been to get it implemented and working for the next season. But I am open to suggestions and improvements. Usually incremental change is easier to implement, than a massive overhaul, so I’m trying to get the basic version up and running and then if we need to, we can add more bells and whistles. Here are the basic points: 1. As before, players will go on waivers when released from a team or at the season flip. The waiver period is still random (although I’m considering making it a fixed period like 3 days or something like 3-5 days rather than 1-7 days). 2. As before, no free agents (and now waiver claim players) will be signed after the September 1st deadline. 3. As with free agents before, you will only be able to sign a waiver claim player if you are under the 50 player roster limit. 4. All waiver deadlines will now be at midnight server time. At that time the player will be assigned to a team. If no eligible club tries to claim the player, he will immediately become a free agent. 5. To claim a player, simply click on the button at the bottom of his player page. 6. You can remove a claim at any time before the deadline. Same button as to add the claim, it simply toggles. 7. At the waiver deadline, the player will be randomly assigned to one the eligible clubs that put a claim on the player. Like free agents, the player will be placed in the club’s AAA club and will be available for immediate reassignment. 8. The is no limit to the number of active waiver claims you can have at one time, but if you exceed the 50 player roster limit, your claims wouldn’t go through. 9. You can view all your waiver claims at the top of the transfer page for your team. 10. Nothing changes for free agents, you can still sign them immediately if you have the roster space and don’t have a negative cash balance. I think that about covers it, but I will add to the list if I think of more things. Steve Updated Wednesday, September 11 2013 @ 9:17:19 pm PDT |
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| #4585 | 09/11/2013 9:29:24 pm | ||
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Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive
| Is there anyway that a set limit equal to everyone could be implement? EX. All teams get 50 waiver claims a season and can use these on any player. You can put all 50 in on a single player to raise your chance of being the only team to get that one player or you can use 50 on 50 different players. I only suggest this cause free agency is going to die if waivers are unlimited. And the 50 per season is just arbitrary... it could be a number per week or whatever... but something finite. |
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| #4586 | 09/11/2013 9:51:56 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| So if you say put a claim with say a weight of 10 and you don't get the player at the deadline -- would you get those "claims" back or are they lost? Steve |
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| #4588 | 09/12/2013 1:59:09 am | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| Wouldn't it just be easier to put a cost for any waiver you place. Say 100k. Just using a number here. Hitting the balance sheet for each claim would help to keep it under control and would be easier to program. |
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| #4589 | 09/12/2013 4:05:44 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Don’t worry guys, things aren’t going to go out of control and the claim system is not going to kill the free agent market. That’s nonsense. I’m sorry, but both suggestions are horrible and defeat the purpose of bringing a claim system in, not to mention they are unrealistic. In a claim system, if you’re interested in a player you claim him, and that’s it. You can claim as many players as you want and you get the SAME chance of getting any of those players as any other team that claimed them. That’s how a proper claiming system should be. I say let it be as it is. Don’t kill the baby before he takes his first steps. |
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| #4590 | 09/12/2013 4:10:30 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Right now, there is only one little thing I would change and that would be the display of the number of claims in each player on waivers. I think it would be better to hide this. People should place their claims not knowing if the player has been claimed or not. Hiding the claims rewards those who can find value in the market where others can’t, and prevents people from going “Hum, I see someone claimed this player. He must be good. Let me claim it too”, or to prevent people from claiming a player they don’t need just to try to prevent that player to go to the competition. One other thing, don’t change the waiver period. Let it continue to be random. Since the waiver deadline is going to be midnight from now on, and since the pool of new waivers is mostly populated on Fridays, a fixed waiver period would concentrate all the decisions in only one day of the week. With a random period, you can have the decisions distributed over the week, giving teams who get a claimed player time to rearrange their rosters, toggle claims, etc. before the next decision. |
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| #4591 | 09/12/2013 5:31:10 am | ||
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Krakonico Joined: 01/04/2013 Posts: 312 Inactive
| I like this new option and Mig's suggestions. There is still a question that arise my mind, the teams with economic problems would have the chances to claim a waived player? (My team is not now in economic problems, but are in red yet) |
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| #4593 | 09/12/2013 10:36:15 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I think the waiver period has to change somewhat...I would like all players to be on waivers for at least a couple of days (give everyone a chance to claim them) and I’m not sure there is much need for 7 days on waivers. I will maintain some randomness so all the bot releases don’t come due on the same date. Steve |
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| #4600 | 09/12/2013 5:54:09 pm | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6 
| ok so what if 50 people claim on a 120 si player. if im right theres a 2% chance he goes to your team? also will you be able to see the teams who claimed? |
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| #4601 | 09/12/2013 8:18:49 pm | ||
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Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive
| Exactly how would this not effect the free agent market? Currently there's a slim chance (mostly because of my odd hours and where I live to maybe get a free agent that isn't 33+ years old). The claim system increases that marginally at best but the chance of finding a quality free agent turns to zero if everyone can bid on any and everyone they want to. |
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| #4602 | 09/12/2013 8:44:31 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I see your point, I'd like to see how the system works and see if there are really 50 claims for every decent player. Steve |
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| #4604 | 09/13/2013 3:08:16 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| People shouldn’t be worried about all good players being claimed. That will happen. That is supposed to happen! All you have to do now is claim them as well. The players on waivers that are going to be left for free agency are exactly the same ones that would be left under the old system, the players nobody else wants. So what if 50, 100 or even 500 teams claim the same player? So what!? What other system would give EVERYONE a better chance of signing any given player? NONE! That’s impossible! You want better chances of signing a good player? Well, guess what, SO DOES EVERYONE ELSE! Thing is, the market is limited. This system gives everyone the SAME chance. It doesn’t matter if it’s big or small. That will be decided by demand and supply. Enough with the selfish and greedy complaints please. |
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| #4605 | 09/13/2013 3:46:44 am | ||
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danielpaton Joined: 02/17/2013 Posts: 112 Inactive
| One could now argue that there is no skill in the game anymore. It could get to the stage where its just a total luckfest. I built my team with alot of good free agents that i spent ALOT of time to get. I guess its a case of 2 wolves and a lamb voting what to have for dinner. I feel this waiver system would work best with a salary cap type of system. A salary cap based on division level. The best free agents in my opinion should be playing in the legends league , the ironic thing ive noticed playing this game is that some of the teams i faced in division 4 and 5 (both human and bot) were much much better than any team in even div 2 and 3. Thats just silly. Updated Friday, September 13 2013 @ 3:50:28 am PDT |
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| #4606 | 09/13/2013 5:49:26 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Really?! So why didn’t you ask for salary caps when you were in the lower divisions? Trying to twist the system to your advantage, are we? You can argue there is no skill in the game anymore, but it’s just the opposite. It was until now that there was no skill in game. Hitting F5 multiple times a day is not a skill. It’s just someone with enough time to do it. But don’t worry, that time you spent getting all those good free agents is not going to go to waste. It will still pay off for the next 10 seasons or more. You will still keep your super free agents and your super prospects that you, under the old system, have been allowed to hoard. It’s not like the game is going to reset. It should, though, because the teams that used and abused the old system are still going to stay on top for many, many seasons. It will begin to suck for you and all others accustomed to own the market until now though, but for the first time in his history, broken bat is going to take the first steps into becoming a true sports management game, and not a game strictly about hitting F5 more often than the rest of the competition. |
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| #4607 | 09/13/2013 5:51:48 am | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| I like the idea of a salary cap. Adds more to the game. Makes no sense to me why minor league clubs want to sign top players. Could you see A-frod playing to a AA club? Or Verlander signing for an A league? As a league VI team I will not be trying to claim any of the big dollar waiver players. All the players I have marked to go after all have salaries under a million and 25 and under. |
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| #4608 | 09/13/2013 5:56:28 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Teams in division VI are teams in the majors, not in the minor leagues. If you don’t want to sign big dollar players you will have that option, but that doesn’t give you the right to remove that option from those that do want to sign big dollar players. |
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| #4612 | 09/13/2013 7:31:51 am | ||
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sross78 Joined: 06/10/2013 Posts: 31 Inactive
| i can assure you that every 100 SI + pitcher will have infinite levels of waiver claims on them (50-100+). so everyone involved would have a 1-2% chance of improving their team. currently, there are only 8 100+ SI pitchers under 32 yrs old on the waiver wire (25% of which I just released as salary reduction moves). 100+ SI pitchers are what this game is all about, everyone wants and needs them and they are limited in supply and take a long time to train. i have about 10 minor league pitchers with decent to high potential on my roster but don't see a single one at 90+ SI for 2-4 more seasons and some maybe never. |
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| #4615 | 09/13/2013 8:01:24 am | ||
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danielpaton Joined: 02/17/2013 Posts: 112 Inactive
| Mig you are being a total pain in the ass , you constantly attack me on here when i have done nothing wrong. I have no idea what your gripe is. Generally anger of such sort is a result of insecurities. Whether that is of your ability at this game , the fact your languishing in a lower division or something else , i don't really know , but its not fair for you to come on here and constantly spit venom at anyone who says anything you dont agree with | ||
| #4617 | 09/13/2013 8:30:42 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Cut the drama. I did not attack you, and I certainly don’t constantly attack you. My response was perfectly adequate. I can understand that you don’t like these changes, as you won’t be able to dominate the market anymore, but spare me and the rest of the forum from your personal attacks routine. If you don’t have anything relevant to add to the thread, I suggest you makes us all a favor and stay away from it. |
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| #4618 | 09/13/2013 8:32:26 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| @sross 1% or 2% chance of singing a good player is better than none. I can understand that the people who have been owning the market so far and hoarding all the talent had much better chances of signing good players, but that was only possible at the expense of all those who had 0% of singing a good player. A 1%-2% chance shouldn’t frustrate anyone because it will be the SAME for all teams. |
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| #4619 | 09/13/2013 9:06:29 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| absolutely right Mig! | ||
| #4621 | 09/13/2013 11:44:36 am | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6
| Agreed. It will probably give teams the chance to start from the bottom and comp up. Sure, I admit I'm probably one of the ones who abbused this market, because you have to do what you gotta do to be successful. I expect with this new waiver system THAT all the pitchers with 100+ SI and young will have a whole lot of bids (sross quote) and will have a 1-2% chance to get them. Its the same chance. It's now turned to a lottery. I will also expect the the under-SI high potential talents will also be gobbled up in the mists. Its what teams will do--if they can't get the great SI players, they will look at the under rated and take risks with their training value. I personally like risks. It what makes the game fun. Agreed with Mig. At least everyone has the same chance now then having .5% chance before. So from me being from 50%+ chance of getting a superb talent, has turned to slim to none. I'm perfectly fine with it. Would love to see some flavor up in the higher leagues because right now its just the usual Berlin, Saratoga, Bay City, etc. teams at the top. Now the TOP teams will have to depend on their Scouts and hope to get a diamond in the rough. It's basically what every team will have to do from now on. Find that diamond in the minors. EDIT: @ Steve: I would love to see the teams who claimed on the player, just out of curiosity/see your chances of getting em. Doesn't hurt to look eh? Like just make a lists of teams who put claim on the player at the bottom of their stats. Put them in random/ABC order and toggle their division/abc order/random. Thanks! Updated Friday, September 13 2013 @ 11:49:03 am PDT |
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| #4622 | 09/13/2013 11:51:53 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Please be friendly in your discussions here. Thanks, Steve |
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| #4623 | 09/13/2013 12:00:10 pm | ||
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Crunchtime Joined: 05/23/2013 Posts: 141 Inactive
| Honestly, didn't expect to see that out of you, Bay City. Good on ya. | ||
| #4624 | 09/13/2013 5:08:25 pm | ||
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Crunchtime Joined: 05/23/2013 Posts: 141 Inactive
| O.k., here's the two cents: - I like the new system. It does give everyone an equal chance at the same players. Awesome. - It doesn't take any skill to click all the waiver buttons. Not awesome. - There's no penalty for clicking all the waiver buttons. Not awesome. - The waiver wire becomes a lottery. Not awesome. - After you have your 'winnings', you're free to dump them back into the pool, wasting people's time that really would have liked the guy. Not awesome. That said, a suggestion: The possibly very low percentage of getting a player promotes trying to claim multiple players at the same position. If you *need* a 2nd baseman and there's 10 on the wire, there's not point not to try to claim some, most, or all of them, knowing your chance to get one is low. I think there should be a penalty for being click-happy. Paying up front for the waiver claim won't work. Too expensive for a potentially very small chance. I think the penalty should be for actually winning the waiver. If you get one person, great. If you get 2, ever better, but that second person may not be needed and your depriving another team of him. You then have scenarios where one team wins quite a few players and stockpiles them, shipping them to the minors for later. I don't like that thought as it happens now. Instead, teams receiving a player should pay the penalty of a signing bonus. A percentage of a players annual salary, direct from their free cash. This gives incentive for a team to 'save up' for players. A small market team may only be able to afford a couple pricey players. But those players help the team win and they may not be small market for long. On the other side, bigger, more wealthy teams have to manage their ballooning expenses more carefully and the bonuses along with salary may be too much, promoting releasing more players to the wire and deter stockpiling, or possibly holding pat until they build the funds back up to afford another star. This may help curb the notion of trying to claim many players as you then have to assess whether or not you really want the player and the signing bonus price tag. Updated Friday, September 13 2013 @ 5:10:48 pm PDT |
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| #4625 | 09/13/2013 6:17:22 pm | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| It doesn't take any skill to click all the waiver buttons So what if a team wants to claim all players on waivers? That's stupid, but let them. First of all, the good players are going to be claimed by multiple teams, so hitting all the other buttons won't raise that team's chances of getting the good ones. Second of all, when midnight comes, that team will most likely only win the players nobody else claimed, and not all of those. Once the roster is filled, that team is not eligible for claimed players anymore, so this tactic can in fact jeopardize the team's chance of getting a proper upgrade. There's no penalty for clicking all the waiver buttons There is no advantage in doing so, so no penalty is needed, like explained before. After you have your 'winnings', you're free to dump them back into the pool, wasting people's time that really would have liked the guy This is not going to happen. You make it sound like people are going to get multiple talented players every time. They won't. There will be many candidates for those players and with 1% or 2% chance in each one of them it's very unlikely someone will be able to stockpile talented players. That is what the old system allowed, but not this one. |
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| #4630 | 09/14/2013 12:15:46 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I'm hopeful that the system will provide a more even distribution of top free agent talent and that owners will now have to depend more on home grown talent and finding hidden gems in the free agent market. Also, if you submit lots of waiver claims, you will quickly hit your roster limit and will be full by the time that top players come around. Steve |
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| #4631 | 09/14/2013 1:07:28 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| How about a small improvement to make everyone happy (if this is not already implemented yet): pay 1/10 of his salary (=weekly salary) after you won a waiver claim. No one would claim a player he does not need, if he has to pay atleast one weekly salary for him. (Next one on the next friday.) This also seems realistical in that context. Updated Saturday, September 14 2013 @ 6:19:18 am PDT |
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| #4632 | 09/14/2013 7:14:10 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| That's not an improvement. That's screwing the poor teams, and giving the rich teams an advantage, as if they need more help in this game... You people are so worried about putting restraints on the system, as if something so terrible is going to happen if someone claims a player he doesn't need. If that player is highly needed by the others teams, there will be dozens or even hundreds of claims on him. Does anyone thing a team not needing that player and claiming him is going to make any real difference? Of course not! Come on, now. Stop trying to screw the little guy. Most of the suggestions that have been put here are only about favouring the most powerful teams in the game. It has been all about screwing the poor teams, the weak teams or the teams in the lower divisions. There is nothing wrong with the new system. It's pure, it's fair and it's beautiful. Don't taint it. |
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| #4633 | 09/14/2013 10:29:38 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| I am not worried at all, it was just a suggestion to make the unhappy finally happy. My last free agent add was 2.5 half seasons ago (6 month RL time). |
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| #4635 | 09/14/2013 2:26:24 pm | ||
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Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive
| I still think the solution is a finite amount of waiver opprotunities. Why do we only get one new draftee a week when in real life you get a clump of draftees and then have to sign them? (That was a food for thought question that one does not need to answer). By providing teams with a certain number of waiver opps it will cause one to (oh no!) actually think and strategize how to use them. I love the idea of the system but as it has been stated, the minute the market opens everyone (me included) will be making claims on every single 100 SI pitcher, which is fine but having the chance to put claims on every big batter too and every young player with talent too is overkill in my opinion. |
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| #4636 | 09/14/2013 3:24:20 pm | ||
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MrTwoPlums Joined: 04/14/2012 Posts: 213 Inactive
| "Also, if you submit lots of waiver claims, you will quickly hit your roster limit and will be full by the time that top players come around. Steve" Maybe I'm mistaken, but I think what this means is that if your roster is currently at 49/50 players, you will only be able to lay 1 active waiver claim at a time. If so nobody has to worry about managers putting claims on every single decent player out there. This will also force players to be smart about who they put claims on and who they are willing to drop in order to make more claims. I totally agree with what's already been mentioned. This is the only way that players will have an equal chance at free agents. Also, I'm certain that we don't want any system that involves money with free agency. I've been running a tight budget since before the economy was even finalized. I'm currently sitting at $111 million and still rising and I'm pretty sure that there are other managers with similar bankrolls. If it came to it, I would be willing to put $25 million on a marquee free agent and would most likely be outbid. We definitely don't want that. Updated Saturday, September 14 2013 @ 3:44:48 pm PDT Updated Saturday, September 14 2013 @ 3:47:37 pm PDT |
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| #4637 | 09/14/2013 6:05:11 pm | ||
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Sweetness Joined: 03/29/2013 Posts: 80 Inactive
| This may be a good way to get top free agents. | ||
| #4638 | 09/15/2013 7:20:19 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| Limiting the number of claims any team can make is bad for many reasons. It hurts the weak teams, the ones in need of more upgrades and favours the established ones, the ones with little need for upgrades. This would also lead to many talented players actually reaching free agency, where one team alone could snag them all, the first minute after midnight. It would also make the tactic of preventing other teams from signing a talented player they don't need much more viable, as every talented player on waivers would have much fewer claims on him. So, a limited number of claims per team is not a no. It's a no-no-no. Updated Sunday, September 15 2013 @ 7:21:33 am PDT Updated Sunday, September 15 2013 @ 7:22:15 am PDT |
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| #4640 | 09/15/2013 1:27:26 pm | ||
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Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive
| The whole system is flawed. Draftees take too long too develop and players have no way to control even minutely that advance. THe only thing we had was how long and when we where online, and now that won't matter either. I can show up once every 3 days, tag the players I like and come back and either be elated to get one or reload and try again. Honestly, if the waiver system was available the first week or so then the old system went into effect I think it would be perfect even with unlimited claims. |
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| #4642 | 09/15/2013 5:18:43 pm | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| There will always be those that believe they have the right to be at the top! You can blame that on everyone gets a trophy even if you stink! The new system hasn't kicked in yet. It will help some and hurt others. No matter what anyone thinks about it. until we are able to see it in use we are just guessing as to what will happen. Seems that there is a boat load of players out there too claim that might not have been there without the new system coming along. How many teams have released players that might not have been released if not for the new system? Updated Sunday, September 15 2013 @ 11:21:22 pm PDT |
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| #4643 | 09/15/2013 7:05:08 pm | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6
| I actually have a pretty good idea (at least I think) that would give us the potential of more player+more Talent. How about we do one BIG Draft each Season, Like in everyone league have like, lets say a 5-7 round draft. With a few talented players in it (players with the potential+training efficiency to reach the current potential) And then have lots of players that CAN get there, but depends on the usual training requirements (playing time, + training, + exp). The draft would be giving the teams at the bottom of the league (the sucky teams) a greater chance to land some good ones and then the better teams a chance to get better. I know this plan has some flaws but it would actually give a flow for more talent and would not completely kill a teams growth (like if you're not getting a stud every week from player pull, it's not your fault, it's just lady luck) and what if you can't get every FA in your eyes? Remember now you will have a 2% or less chance to get a stud but with this draft it would give you a chance to get better. Like I said there are flaws but I think the only big flaw there is if a team is tanking and puts all their big guns in minors and then puts them in majors once they get their studs from the draft. ALSO this may over pollute the good players which will create a even greater FA market (because of the overflow of players, etc.) ^with that assumption in mind I got another plan in my head, which is to just SCRAP all the Free Agents who are 28+ and who have above average and less potential AND/OR lower then 60 Skill Index. It would lessen the Free Agent Market by A LOT and please tell me, who wants these free agents? NO ONE. I know these are some flawed plans but lets discuss it  |
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| #4646 | 09/16/2013 10:12:45 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Obviously a yearly draft would be most like what the amateur draft that MLB has currently. Teams also sign players from abroad on a year around bases to. Really, the drawback to having a single draft in Broken Bat is that it means newer players would potentially have to wait for a whole season before then might be able to participate in that part of the game. Steve |
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| #4647 | 09/16/2013 10:23:57 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I have considered a number of costs, penalties and limitations to the wavier system. I think we need to wait and see how things work out before we implement anything like that. One of the most unpopular rules in Broken Bat was the initial limitation of one new player (including free agents) per week. However, when we went to unlimited free agents, then there was a lot of complaining about teams grabbing all the free agents. Also, just to clarify, if you are under the 50 player roster limit, you will be able to put in as many claims as you like. However, as soon as a few players are assigned to you team and your team hits the roster limit, you will be bypassed on any claims you’ve submitted. Steve |
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| #4648 | 09/16/2013 11:20:51 am | ||
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the gizmo Joined: 02/07/2013 Posts: 574 Inactive
| I, for one, like what is being considered for the waiver system since not everyone has the same opportunity to be able to be in front of a computer for the same amount of time every day. My thoughts:
Updated Monday, September 16 2013 @ 11:21:44 am PDT |
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| #4649 | 09/16/2013 11:55:55 am | ||
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Crunchtime Joined: 05/23/2013 Posts: 141 Inactive
| The thought with the money penalty was that smaller teams would go after cheaper players anyways because they can't afford the salary. That there would be a natural, financial division between upper and lower tier teams. Big teams with lots of money are much more likely (and able) to sign big ticket players. The penalty for someone who is 2 mil and someone who is 5 mil is a big difference. Also factoring in that a small market team is only likely to hire one 'expensive' guy and a big market team can bid for, sign and release many expensive players (if they choose to do so and luck favors them and they have the room), a penalty affects the big market teams more often and more strongly than small. However after a bit more thinking I'm thinking it's not as good an idea. We have teams admittedly who have 100+ mil. 5 mil to a team with 100 mil is peanuts. But 2 mil (let alone 5 mil) as a penalty to a small market team may be crippling. While the intent was to try to even out the financial playing field a bit by punishing the bigger teams, it may not work out that way. The system as is, is an improvement. I'm glad there is a change being implemented. I think most of us desire something a bit more or something different (and there is those that choose to dramatically defend what's being implemented) but this is a very good step. We love this game and want an even playing field. This is a move in the right direction. Updated Tuesday, September 17 2013 @ 2:50:08 am PDT |
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| #4669 | 09/18/2013 9:44:27 am | ||
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the gizmo Joined: 02/07/2013 Posts: 574 Inactive
| Since Sept 23 is "reset free agent waivers" I am looking for confirmation that all players released and still on waivers on game day, Sept 1st, when rosters are frozen, their 1-7 day random release will begin anew or will there be a feeding frenzy on FA claims when new season rollover happens | ||
| #4672 | 09/18/2013 10:17:16 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Yes, all available players (35 yo and under) will start the new season on waivers. Steve |
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| #4684 | 09/18/2013 7:10:49 pm | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6
| Well, imo the only way to get GOOD, young pitchers into the game is by the draft (in my honest opinion) As the the demand for Pitchers increase, the supply of them decreases. I haven't seen a single good pitcher (the one with <18 and 60+ SI, <20 and 70+ SI, and <22 and 80+ SI) In the minors. As said earlier, there a very select few worthy pitchers on the market, and those will get chomped up quickly. 8 Players. About 200 or so teams needing the great pitcher. Will not work in a few years. I have great values of this game, but the pitching aspect is getting worse year by year, as the old retire, there is a VERY select few of YOUNG and GOOD pitchers (95+ SI) and when those retire, where are the good ones? I'm speaking for EVERY team here, not just the uppder level leagues. As said earlier, 100+ SI pitchers is what the game is about. Everyone wants them, needs them, will do anything for them. But with the current trend, there won't be much 100+ SI pitchers in a few years........ I'm not trying to be biased about it, but I've never pulled a great pitcher from the draft. I'm pretty sure they are really hard to find (like 1 in a 10,000?) So the draft would actually raise that value (1 in a 1,000) Because everyone needs them, and when there is no more supply, all the teams with the great pitchers will destroy this game. |
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| #4685 | 09/18/2013 8:51:05 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Well, after 14 seasons, almost all the originally generated players and free agents are at the end of their careers. So 90% of the players now are draftees. It’s a closed system after the initial launch, so the number and ratio of pitchers is dependent on the choices of owner and the bot teams. That said; pitching has in fact gotten better (especially in the upper leagues). Overall batting average has dropped a few points and walks given up has dropped significantly too. What does that mean? It means that teams are evaluating their pitchers better and holding on to more pitching talent. Ergo, there is less pitching talent on the open market. I do think it’s possible to draft good pitchers though (although maybe not by the end of the season once the draft pools are depleted), I just think the overall scouting information isn’t as helpful in sorting out the good and bad pitchers. Steve |
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| #4687 | 09/19/2013 2:10:44 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| I just think the overall scouting information isn’t as helpful in sorting out the good and bad pitchers. i think this makes the difference, batters are better scouted (described) and so easier to identify. |
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| #4688 | 09/19/2013 4:03:12 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| msigg6 wrote: "all the teams with the great pitchers will destroy this game" It’s funny that someone who has been destroying this game with great pitching in the last seasons is now worried others will do the same in the future. This problem you see now was way much more severe under the old system, don’t you think? Where were you and your complaints about this in the past seasons? But you can relax, that won’t happen anymore. With this new system, in the future, no one will be able to build teams as strong as your team is right now, because hoarding talent is not going to be possible anymore. Anyway, flooding the market with good players is not the way to go and it’s not realistic. If there won’t be enough good players in the market for everyone, people will just have to get used to sign above average players, and if there won’t be enough 100+ SI pitchers in the market for everyone, people will just have to get used to sign 90+ SI pitchers or even 80+ SI pitchers. What’s important here is that everyone will be in the same boat. No more perfect teams for a selected few. Everyone will have a flawed team in one way or another and the ones who will rise above the others will be the ones who will be able to squeeze the most of their flawed teams, as it should be. |
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| #4689 | 09/19/2013 8:22:18 am | ||
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crackit Joined: 05/15/2013 Posts: 315 Anchorage Lawless IV.4 
| Firstly, I am happy to play under either the current free agency or the proposed waiver systems. However neither the current or proposed system is particularly realistic; and both depend on luck not judgement:
I accept trading is not possible, as this would be open to abuse. What would require skill and judgement would be for owners to sign players to a binding contract; and do so against other bidding teams. The owner defining the term and value of the contract offered. This would require owners to balance short term against medium-to-long term priorities; to negotiate deals effectively in a competitive environment and to best manage their financial resources. The baseball player would select the offer that best suits them, possibly based on:
This obviously favours the best and richest teams in the first instance but it requires them to use judgement in bidding for players and forces them to manage their roster beyond the pick-up the best available and drop-off them off for something better approach that can be adopted at the moment. Get it wrong and they:
Players might like good pay but could prefer the security of a longer contract. Players on a short contract would be up for grabs again soon; players on long contracts are holding down a roster place for 1, 2, 3 maybe 4 years stopping additional acquisitions. Owners could only terminate contracts by buying them out for a prohibitive charge. The effect would be to limit the amount of players that the top teams would acquire through free agency and make more available down the leagues. More complicated to code but I believe is more realistic and more importantly requires skill and judgement on behalf of the owners; and makes the financial part of simulation more meaningful. It might be less fair, but would require owners to think about what they do rather than just hit a button when they see a good player as happens now or will do under the proposed waiver system. |
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| #4691 | 09/19/2013 9:08:49 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| In the real world money talks, and talks loudly. That’s the reality! Regardless of the fact a more realistic system would benefit the rich teams here in broken bat, I doubt that would be a fun game to play, at least to me. You speak of contracts and managing contracts. That is in fact what happens in the real baseball world, but that is also what happens in any other sports world, or any factory or any company, for that matter. Contract management is general management, and I think people here are more interested in the baseball specific management, you know, deciding which players will play the match, in which positions and when. I’m not sure if there’s enough interest for that kind of depth in this game, regardless of how hard it is to code. I don’t know either what is Steve’s vision for the future of this game. All I know is, contract management, albeit realistic, would be too much depth for me, and I probably wouldn’t play that game. |
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| #4692 | 09/19/2013 9:27:54 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| As for the system being all about luck, well, if you have a 120+ SI pitcher, his ERA is not going to always be 2.0. Some seasons, it will be a smaller number, other seasons, it will be a greater one. The same will go for the waiver system, some years you will get lucky and sign a stud, other years you won’t be able to sign anyone talented, but in the end it all evens out. The thing is some people are used to having a way of increasing their odds in the market, and now that advantage is gone there. They forget, though, that baseball’s goal is not to sign players, the goal is to win matches. Until now that was achieved solely in the free agency page. In the future, people can still change their odds, but not solely in the free agency page. For some of you, it’s time to rediscover the game. Updated Thursday, September 19 2013 @ 9:28:30 am PDT Updated Thursday, September 19 2013 @ 9:29:40 am PDT |
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| #4693 | 09/19/2013 10:48:23 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Actually, Skill Index (SI) I think is an overused value. I think it’s a very rough barometer of a player’s value, but it certainly isn’t the only predictor of a player’s value. Frankly, I think there are a lot of clubs chasing the top SI free agents and there is still a fair amount of talent in the free agent market that is untapped. As for realism, there is a trade-off between mimicking MLB and having something that’s playable, scalable and meets the needs of our user base. Things like league structure, promotion/demotion and cup play were added to provide more enjoyment playing the game…even though they’re not what happen in real baseball. Contract management is certainly part of modern day baseball, but for most of baseball history, the clubs just doled out contracts at the beginning of the season and the player s could either take it or go find a real job. Steve |
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| #4697 | 09/19/2013 2:46:44 pm | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6
| @Mig Read please, I did say earlier in this discussion that I've admit to getting good players. I'm just saying what it is. Every single team out here will want those kind of pitchers, and every single team needs them. No need to come out at people. Now, with this new system, yea it will take a very long time TO get used. But I guess it's part of evolution. Pitchers in the game will get worse and worse. BTW when I said "teams with great pitchers" I meant teams of the past, present and future. Now I know this is a fact: Las Vegas and Saratoga (no offense) have been doing the stack and pack strategy to get to the top. I've used the same strategy. I've also used the strategy of getting ahead of the ball game (with my fielders, I already have a few ready to play ball in Majors in a couple of years) Now, I know your talking for the lower league people mig, and you're probably thinking I'm in the Big League team's sides. I'm not. I'm just trying to make a way for the game to get better. And end of story : ) |
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| #4703 | 09/19/2013 8:00:19 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Keep in mind that much older teams were also competing against only 200 other owners for free agents and now we have 500 managed clubs, so that is driving demand too. Steve |
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| #4706 | 09/20/2013 12:41:33 am | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| You say SI is used to much to measure players. I am sure there is plenty of untapped skill in the free agent market. But the only way we have to judge is from the SI. To find that untapped skill is just a crap shot. If you take 5 players from the free agent pool. You might get lucky and find one of the untapped players you speak of. Just like in the real world. More info on the players or minor league games would help to find these gems you speak of. |
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| #4709 | 09/20/2013 7:48:18 am | ||
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Mig2012 Joined: 09/26/2012 Posts: 547 Inactive
| msigg6, You’ve got to hand it to me, what you wrote, coming from you, was fresh. If you feel I came out at you, well, you were asking for it. |
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| #4760 | 09/22/2013 10:27:26 pm | ||
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JK13 Joined: 07/13/2013 Posts: 26 Inactive
| Seems like there needs to be some waiver priority system put into effect. Like a waiver priority list 1-500. You make a claim and your team goes to bottom of list. Four players I put claims on went to the same two teams. So they got two players they claimed and I was out of luck... | ||
| #4761 | 09/23/2013 1:03:49 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| i think it didnt worked at all - had some players on waiver claim list and checked them this morning. Some went to other teams and some went to free agency instead to me, although i had one open roster spot. so atleast one player of them had to be on my team by waiver claim. | ||
| #4769 | 09/23/2013 3:03:12 pm | ||
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msigg6 Joined: 06/05/2012 Posts: 336 Bay City Lions IV.6
| Same goes for me.  Also 2 teams got 2 good players at same time, agree with the post above Berlin's. You must have the hand of luck if you can get 2 players. |
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| #4770 | 09/23/2013 7:17:10 pm | ||
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JK13 Joined: 07/13/2013 Posts: 26 Inactive
| Yeah, seems like the waiver system had some serious bugs and it was a domino effect from there. Hopefully things will just get reset,fixed and we can try again.The "lucky" teams might be upset but that's probably the fairest thing that can be done. | ||
| #4771 | 09/24/2013 12:50:40 am | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| I had over 10 open spots and did not win a waiver. Also had some claims on guys that ended up as free agents. Hopefully if there is a reset we get at least 24 hours to put claims in and it isn't just all go to free agents. |
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| #4772 | 09/24/2013 1:40:36 am | ||
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AmUnRA Joined: 06/17/2012 Posts: 299 Inactive
| in combiantion with the game engine bug, best would be a rollback until the day of the season change | ||
| #5026 | 10/20/2013 5:58:21 pm | ||
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Ajax Joined: 05/24/2012 Posts: 110 Inactive
| Can you make a waiver claim on more than 1 player at a time? I can't find any instructions under help.... | ||
| #5027 | 10/20/2013 8:24:07 pm | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| You can make a claim on as many players as you like. | ||
| #5028 | 10/21/2013 12:48:40 am | ||
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cjmoules Joined: 05/19/2012 Posts: 34 Inactive
| Could you consider making waiver claims based on current record or position so that lower teams have a first chance to improve? Maybe 1 chance per team based on position per day/cycle? | ||
| #5029 | 10/21/2013 1:11:48 am | ||
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rjpj69 Joined: 08/22/2013 Posts: 55 Inactive
| It is very funny how I need pitching and can not seem to get a good one from waivers. But the 2 batters I placed claims on I got. But it is better to have a chance with the waivers. Than it was before. | ||
| #5034 | 10/21/2013 11:49:39 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I am not adverse to a priority system....I think the current system is an improvement on the free-for-all system that existed before. And if need be, we will continue to refine the new waiver system. There are a lot of considerations for a priority system....there isn’t a single value that would be reasonable to order priority by. Is a 30-40 team in league II more or less deserving that a 33-37 team in league IV? What if one team has grabbed a lot of players off waivers? What is one team is under brand new ownership? Steve |
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| #5063 | 10/21/2013 7:25:12 pm | ||
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Ajax Joined: 05/24/2012 Posts: 110 Inactive
| What happens if you "win" a waiver claim and don't have a free roster spot? | ||
| #5064 | 10/21/2013 8:45:40 pm | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| You get bypassed. Steve |
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| #5302 | 11/04/2013 5:43:35 pm | ||
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Ajax Joined: 05/24/2012 Posts: 110 Inactive
| I'm putting in a ton a waiver claims trying to see even one execute. I'm starting to wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Either that or I have fatally bad luck :lol: | ||
| #5308 | 11/05/2013 9:29:18 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| What’s happening to the players that you’ve put claims on?? Are they going to other teams or just to free agency -- why do you suspect a problem? There is a lot of contention for good players – especially top starting pitchers. Steve |
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| #5320 | 11/05/2013 6:50:11 pm | ||
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Ajax Joined: 05/24/2012 Posts: 110 Inactive
| I have no idea. It doesn't send me a message about where they went. I did offer fatally bad luck up as an option. Perhaps that is it. |
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