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Forum >> Suggestions >> Add a slight bell-shaped curve to players available in draft rounds  

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function
#78986	11/28/2020 10:03:55 am	Mar 16th, 2048	Ignore
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	The concern has been a long standing one for me. Looking around there are some new names (for me) on the "right" side of the tree. Maybe its more a left side problem where we seem to get the 5th place team a disproportionate number of times. The 2041 draft class is/will shake things up. A number of teams clustered star picks that year. The effects will be felt for a while. Sorry for distracting from the suggestion. I remain against it. Even a modest increase in list size will drain the talent pool faster (that's the point, right?). It won't make any difference in the number of complaints as teams will still whiff, or will get only a good player instead of a great player. Its baseball; not football or basketball. There are no guarantees your first rounder will make the bigs, let alone be a star.
#78989	11/28/2020 11:45:51 am	Mar 16th, 2048	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9600 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I'd like to see more players. It increases the weighting of skill, provides a more fair distribution of talent, and makes for a more realistic experience. I'm fine with 90% of the talent being gone before the 8th round. Especially with the new POT fuzziness. A sleeper doesn't have to be a POT 14 that looks like a pro from day one. A sleeper can be a POT 12 that everyone overlooked, but is really a POT 14 in disguise. That is a much better approximation of a sleeper in real life anyhow.
#78991	11/28/2020 12:12:24 pm	Mar 16th, 2048	Ignore
rlawrence Joined: 02/03/2020 Posts: 102 Inactive	I wouldn't want to penalize the great players for being great. The game is pretty much an equal playing field. It just takes time to learn, and then time to acquire the right players/build a system once you figure things out. And by 'time' this could well mean 10 seasons, but yeah, after that all is fair :-P I do agree, it would be better with more people getting access to the top, that was the reason I suggested this: http://brokenbat.org/forum/0/5/7274 Updated Saturday, November 28 2020 @ 12:43:01 pm PST Updated Saturday, November 28 2020 @ 12:45:14 pm PST
#79015	11/29/2020 8:47:50 pm	Mar 20th, 2048	Ignore
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	I did come up with a possible solution to the old dogs clogging up the upper leagues. How about having a senior circuit? A test league style league that's outside of the pyramid that teams like mine could "retire" to while still being able to play the game normally. Retirement to the isolated league would be voluntary. There'd be no promotion or relegation, but very little else would change. You'd still draft from the same pool. Claim from the same waivers. You'd just be in a league with other old salts trying to win the Gray Cup every year.
#79016	11/29/2020 10:17:17 pm	Mar 20th, 2048
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator	Interesting discussion. I don't quite get the clogging issue -- the pyramid system was made intentionally steep so that teams continually play teams of similar strength. I realize people always want to move up faster and never demote -- but how realistic is that? Steve
#79017	11/29/2020 11:04:43 pm	Mar 20th, 2048	Ignore
Haselrig Joined: 04/13/2014 Posts: 2790 Novi Doubledays III.4	It's the never demoting part that's the problem here, I think. If there's an ever-growing group of teams that never demote below LL3, then, on a long enough timeline, a new team's prospects of ever getting to Legends gets narrower and narrower. As an example, my team had an easier path to Legends than someone like lostraven's did, but a harder one than MrTwoPlums had in his era. I don't really NEED to be in Legends at this point for me to continue enjoying playing. Sure, it'll be a blast to play against all of my friends in that league, but I don't really having a burning need to win a championship or avoid demotion. I'm happy just puttering around with my minors at this point. Seems like an isolated league would kill two birds with one stone. Players like me could still play without having to start over at the bottom by abandoning their team, and the path upward for new owners would open up a bit.
#79022	11/30/2020 7:01:53 am	Mar 20th, 2048	Ignore
lostraven Joined: 07/02/2016 Posts: 1269 Corvallis Ravens II.1	I realize people always want to move up faster and never demote -- but how realistic is that? That's a more than fair question. I guess the caveat to that question is how realistic is that given that—and I speak broadly here—the most active players often dwell in the top three leagues? That's likely going to happen with any online game, right? The most active players have an advantage. That's pretty realistic, right? I guess the primary concern with the likes of this discussion (well, it does seem we drifted away from the original suggestion, but whatever) is genuine concern about the longevity of the game. I mean, in the end, it's kinda' up to Steve; if he gets tired of this and wants to fold shop, that's his prerogative. However, on a shorter scale, the question remains "how do we get new human managers but also retain their interest?" Some of that is being helpful, answering questions, etc. But at some point, if a team loses in IV or III, just missing promotion for the sixth time because they were yet again beaten by a four-, five-, six-year veteran human manager, there may be a point where the owner just gives up, because it's always the same people moving (back) up there. Sure this happens in sports too; how often has Duke been at or near the top over the past few decades? Sorry, this is getting long-winded. All of that's to say that this comes down to a balance question. Are there balance tweaks that would allow some human managers to remain engaged and have a shot at climbing further, or is it simply a matter of realistically the most engaged human managers naturally fill the top? I don't know. As an aside, regarding Haselrig's idea, I admit to being fond of an old-timer's league separate from the pyramid. However, logistically, programmatically, and fairly I believe there would be a few problems. Much like how requesting my team be moved back down to VI to start over again, so too would requesting moving a bunch of teams from III, II, and I to a separate old-timer's league. How do you fairly backfill the vacancies created by those teams that get pulled out of the league? I don't think you can fairly decide that within the current programmatic promotion rules.
#79023	11/30/2020 7:47:00 am	Mar 20th, 2048	Ignore
jezzat Joined: 01/27/2019 Posts: 113 Rockford Rhinos V.9	In terms of retaining the interest of lower league managers, I like 2 ideas. The first is the fewer, larger divisions rlawrence suggested in the other thread so at least the gap from bottom to top is only 4 rungs not 5 and legends doesn't seem quite so far off. The second is a "shuffle" of teams at the same level every so often (maybe every 5 seasons) so that the teams at, for example, level 3 get re-distributed between III.1, III.2, III.3 and III.4 depending on rankings (so it could be best team in .1, next in .2, 3rd best in .3, 4th best in .4 and then back the other way so 5th best is also in .4 etc). Same with every division. This would help to even up the leagues rather than one section being always harder than others and also means you get to play new teams rather than just the same ones again and again (which for me at least gets quite boring). I agree however that whatever system you use the people who have the most time to put it into it will do the best and experience will always count for something and rightly so in each case.
#79040	11/30/2020 4:05:23 pm	Mar 23rd, 2048	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9600 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I think the pyramid works well as is. If you are a skilled (and lucky) manager, anyone can raise up the pyramid. There isn't an "old timer" advantage in this game the way it exists in other games. It can take time to rebuild a team, but if you have some luck and make good choices you can promote. The same is true for those at the top. If you make bad choices, or have a string of bad luck, you will demote. This is the most "fair" online sports game I have ever played in that respect. I don't see any reason to change it up.
#79092	12/02/2020 3:15:08 pm	Mar 31st, 2048	Ignore
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2237 New York Lancers V.4	I'm with Rock on this, the pyramid works just fine. I felt my own rise to the top as a shock every step of the way, yet looking back from on high there then seemed to be a (certainly rose-tinted) inevitability to it. The subsequent drop has seemed inevitable for all the opposite reasons: like nothing I could have done would have made any difference, a helplessness. Maybe that's the ups and downs of luck, or maybe its just a well-formed game - or maybe its both. But take a look around. There are plenty examples akin to this, a team who rose nearly to the top only to tumble all the way back down. Look at past Legends champions - Seattle dropped all the way to the bottom, and just promoted back to LLV for this season. Battle Creek are in LLIV, Kalamazoo (and myself, and Waterloo) are in LLIII. Sometimes you're good enough that you can hang on or bounce around the top few leagues, but not everyone can. Check back just five seasons, how many Legends teams from that season are still there? (4/12, and that because the Moo Cows just made it back) I don't see any reason to change the pyramid. I'm still not a fan of the new draft, I liked the surety of the previous one.

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