Broken Bat - Discussion Forum: Best Farm Systems

Forum >> Discussions >> Best Farm Systems

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function

#27470	11/30/2015 8:49:17 am
Mig2015 Joined: 06/17/2015 Posts: 162 Inactive	I am wondering who has the best farm systems in the game. This section is for bragging about how good yours is. Go ahead and list your top players. For example, My top 5 1. Joaquin Sanchez -- 16 POT / 24 YO / AAA 2. Wally White -- 15 POT / 17 YO / Rookie 3. Anibal Davila -- 15 POT / 20 YO / A 4. Sammy Davidson -- 14 POT / 22 YO / AA 5. Frank Richardson -- 14 POT / 18 YO / Rookie Honorable Mention: Ozzie Virgil -- 14 POT / 24 YO / Majors Virgil would have been ranked third if he had not already been called up. Let's hear about your top players.

#27489	11/30/2015 11:30:16 am
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5202 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Sanchez turns a good farm system into a great one all by himself. I don't have much to brag about. I figure the strongest farm right now might be Topeka, with Manhattan not far behind.

#27491	11/30/2015 11:55:47 am
Tiger504 Joined: 06/17/2014 Posts: 1314 Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers III.4	Well, I've got two 15's and five 14's on the hitting side. I've got only one 14 pitcher. Sure would like a couple more pitchers. I would gladly sacrifice some of those hitting prospects for a couple of pitching prospects. I also have three 13's on the hitting side that I believe will be impact major leaguers. I just wish I had the same faith in my pitchers. Updated Monday, November 30 2015 @ 11:58:52 am PST

#27494	11/30/2015 12:12:35 pm
PrivateSnowflake Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 1169 Bloomington Thunder Legends	Well this is depressing...I've drafted seven 13's in four and a half seasons and the one 14 I ever got will only ever be a DH... Updated Monday, November 30 2015 @ 12:15:11 pm PST

#27496	11/30/2015 1:16:15 pm
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	There used to be value in waivers and free agents, but they mean far less than they ever have before. That puts more emphasis on the draft system, which is a joke. Drafting is pure luck. Well, except for the part about racing to be the first to draft each week, which is yet another sham. It's really a shame because most everything here is very good. The draft, however, is horrible.

#27497	11/30/2015 1:37:34 pm
Toon Squad Joined: 07/21/2015 Posts: 255 Inactive	1 - http://brokenbat.org/player/112064 - Marco Blanco, 14 POT, A ball, 20 2 - http://brokenbat.org/player/100888 - Raul Fernandez, 13 POT, AAA ball, 22 3 - http://brokenbat.org/player/114873 - Chrisrian Bonilla, 14 POT, AA Ball, 22 4 - http://brokenbat.org/player/113616 - Craig Fischer, 13 POT, A ball, 19 5 - http://brokenbat.org/player/115377 - Cristian Nunez, 14 POT, AA ball, 21 I have a pretty average farm system I feel. I did just start building it, so I hope it keeps on coming along nicely. The waiver system actually aided me along in my rebuilding, as it let me fill my minors with decent prospects rather quickly.

#27499	11/30/2015 1:58:47 pm
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	#1- Luis Rosa- 21 yo- 15 potential- A ball #2- Zachary Thomason- 20 yo- 15 potential- A ball #3- Oscar Schubert- 22 yo- 15 potential- Rookie ball #4- Salvador Lopez- 20 yo- 14 potential- A ball #5- Dave Connor- 22 yo- 14 potential- AAA ball Rosa is the only 15 potential pitcher to ever be in the Raleigh franchise, thus by default his value is high. I have two 14 potential pitchers who have very high ceilings, but they were old when drafted and are still very low in SI. If they pan out they could end up being in the top 3 here, but they are rather big question marks right now.

#27501	11/30/2015 2:29:08 pm
Yuri84 Joined: 10/14/2014 Posts: 639 Apple Valley Raccoons IV.4	1. Zack Morris - 15 pot/23 YO/AAA 2. Daniel Wagner - 15 pot/20 YO/A 3. Haruyasu Kokawa - 15 pot/23 YO/A 4. Duck Young Park - 14 pot/22 YO/AAA 5. Kyle Finley - 14 pot/23 YO/AAA And 6 more 14 pot guys of different age and level. Kokawa is probably wasted though, he's a bit too old and not very diligent, I expect him reaching around 85 SI by the time he's 25 years old and that's a shame really. Updated Monday, November 30 2015 @ 2:34:37 pm PST

#27502	11/30/2015 2:36:21 pm
xLee227 Joined: 07/06/2015 Posts: 269 Inactive	1. Alfredo Lira (22) 14pt/AAA 2. Hyun Su Seen (24) 15pt/A 3. Miguel Gallardo (22) 14pt/AAA 4. Wally Walter (21) 14pt/AA 5. Roger Tremblay (17) 13pt/Rookie I think I've got a fairly average farm system that's lacking in depth overall. Hopefully Lira develops into a top-of-the-rotation type arm and Seen progresses fairly quickly, or he's going to have trouble reaching his ceiling seeing that he was 23 when I drafted him and he's still stuck in A ball. Updated Monday, November 30 2015 @ 2:37:22 pm PST

#27503	11/30/2015 2:37:07 pm
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Well I've cut several POT 14 guys in favor of POT 12 FA signings... So I'm not sure POT is really a good measurement... Its hard to judge a systems without doing a full evaluation of all the players. I think the biggest thing is having players staggered in such a way that you always have the next star for each position ready by the time the previous guy is going out.

#27513	11/30/2015 7:22:23 pm
dwindacatcher Joined: 04/03/2014 Posts: 633 Inactive	Pot is what it is for this, but w/e. First off, my system is average at best. 6 14s, 5 13, rest are 12s. Of the 14s only 2 I expect to be impact major leaguers (and 1 of the 2 ISN'T the only 14 pot pitcher I have). Most of my system is clogged with 12 potential, decent report, very low arm/range/fielding pitchers. My team can't draft any so I have been trying to grab up 12s thay will act more like 13 or 14s. We will see how thay works in 3 years.

#27521	12/01/2015 1:25:41 am
Favuz Joined: 02/26/2014 Posts: 639 Oxnard Sunsets IV.3	i promoted two 15 pot and one 14 pot last year, so my farm is a little depleted, anyway this is my top 5 1- Logan Robbins /16 pot/19 yo/A. 2- Fernando Pizarro /15 pot/19 yo/AA. 3- Nicholas Grace /14 pot/18 yo/A. 4- Jason Shields /14 pot/22 yo/AA. 5- Albert Rose /15 pot/20yo/A. honorable mention: Josue Rivas /15 pot/25 yo/AAA. i've got another bunch of 14 pot (all hitters), a lot of 13 pot and four 12 pot(all pitchers and a hitter). Overall my farm is pretty deep for position players, but very slim on pitching.

#27522	12/01/2015 1:52:57 am
Endrju Joined: 05/28/2015 Posts: 577 Inactive	Creating a farm is still in progress, but we have some good prospects in there. Merrill and Cedillo should be making the bigs this year. For future years I have high hopes in Peoples and last week's draft Van Slyke. Only Cedillo was here when I took the team, the rest is drafted by me. Special nomination to the Spaniard Dimas who is one of the few 12 pots in our minors, but has better scouting report than some higher potential players.

#27529	12/01/2015 7:54:17 am
PrivateSnowflake Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 1169 Bloomington Thunder Legends	Mike, if I could I would upvote your post a thousand times. There was a time when you could dig and find your stars of tomorrow. I know, because I did it. Now those guys are in their 30's and I have no hope to replace them with better players. I just hope to maintain. With my club on the low side of the "luck" in the draft, I've had to hope to pick up the imperfect cast-offs of other teams. Yes, some 12's are nice, but they can't carry a club to better leagues with better players. And before you go there, Mig used to brag about how his baseball acumen was the reason Orlando was so good. Uh, did you ever look at his roster? The dang bot won with those players! If I'm only getting one or two 13 pot players a year in the draft, then I'm down to replacing my players with 12's and expensive 13's who are missing a stat. Now I'm not saying to make the draft all 13's and 14's, far from it. There needs to be booms and busts. But I do believe the POT search in FA has hurt BB. In the name of making it "fair", it's made the game "unfair". Yeah it took longer, but the "searching for gems" was kinda fun. You really felt like you were uncovering something special. Now I'm getting passed by players that search for five seconds, get lucky in waivers, then go AI. This isn't pay-to-win (thank you!) but if you out-work everyone, shouldn't you get even the slightest bonus? There's no guarantee high-pot prospects will pan out, but the odds certainly go up if you can land some.

#27537	12/01/2015 12:35:10 pm
poorteam Joined: 09/18/2015 Posts: 33 Inactive	http://brokenbat.org/minors/140 my minors r not the best but i am trying to go for an international flavour on my team with a couple americans sprinkled in!

#27539	12/01/2015 1:56:22 pm
Toon Squad Joined: 07/21/2015 Posts: 255 Inactive	@Poorteam I like your minors! You have a good start! Keep working on it!

#27540	12/01/2015 2:53:34 pm
cmneal Joined: 05/25/2014 Posts: 33 Bolingbrook Beavers IV.2	To add to Mike and Snowflake, I have always felt that the lower league teams should have a better chance to land the higher potential prospects. It would by no means fix the draft process, but I think it would be much more realistic. As has been noted repeatedly, just because they are higher potential does not always mean they end up the better player. Just like in the real MLB. The difference being that this game allows the best teams to have a chance at prospects that would be top 5 picks and the MLB does not. Pretty frustrating being in div 6 and pull 4 above average prospects and 1 good prospect with your "1st Rd" pick. edit- And/Or we could have a "scouting" option where you spend so much on scouting to help increase your chance at better potential players. Updated Tuesday, December 1 2015 @ 4:00:55 pm PST

#27544	12/01/2015 5:36:58 pm
Slug5373 Joined: 12/23/2014 Posts: 376 Inactive	Wow, you all have awesome farms! I still have not drafted a 15 POT or above player in my 4 seasons. However, I do have 11 14POT players and 14 13POT players. So, I think my system is average to above average. Updated Tuesday, December 1 2015 @ 5:39:59 pm PST

#27550	12/01/2015 9:33:47 pm
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	Certainly not the best farm... but here's what I've got: 1. Corey Lawson 23, 105 SI, 14 POT 2. Michio Futagawa 21, 69 SI, 15 POT 3. Denny Lynn 21, 82 SI, 14 POT 4. Cristiano Santana 22, 80 SI, 14 POT 5. Masatsugu Takahashi 21, 67 SI, 16 POT Despite the high potential on Takahashi, he's behind on development and will most likely never reach close to that. I'm guessing he peaks at around 105 SI. I have another 14 POT and a 15 POT who are even further behind and probably won't get very far. Then I have a number of strong 13's mixed in. I also have a decent 12 POT who seems ahead of the curve and will likely max out by 23.

#27551	12/01/2015 9:45:22 pm
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Why do waivers and FA "mean far less" then before...? I don't get that comment. I've had horrible luck in the draft. My team is built almost entirely off waivers and FA. I just dropped a 13POT "very good" potential guy to pick up a 12POT "very good" potential who had 0 claims on him. The guy is going straight into my major league bullpen at LL-3. Lots of valuable players on the waivers and FA. Folks are just too lazy to look. The draft is too much of a crap shoot. Even if you hit the lotto and manage to draft a 14, more often then not they have poor builds and are inferior to POT 12 you can pick up out of FA.

#27553	12/02/2015 5:52:51 am
PrivateSnowflake Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 1169 Bloomington Thunder Legends	To be fair, Rock, the 12 pot P isn't a guy who would help any major league roster atm. A lot of clubs don't have the luxury of keeping those types on their roster. Your club is good enough to sign a guy like that, but if you were say, fighting from relegation, it might be different. Now we're back to expanding the rosters, but let's not open that can of worms (again). I also have 12 pots, FA, waiver guys that make up my roster, so both Rock and I will tell you that it can be done, you just gotta look hard enough/read the reports/know what builds to look for. My two best hitters are 12's. I even just signed an 11 for my pen. I think when you hear that the FA/waiver system is "not what is used to be", it means that owners (myself included) didn't like the POT search option. It's made the search lazy and in turn, diluted the pool by allowing too much parity. Now the hard-working owner is on par with a one-and-done owner, sucking decent prospects from the pool. A little (or a lot) selfish? You bet. If an owner like Rock takes time to look through the reports, shouldn't he get a leg up on someone who just sorts a column? I think a guy like that should get rewarded, even if that reward isn't a sure thing (it's better than nothing).

#27554	12/02/2015 6:20:52 am
Krakonico Joined: 01/04/2013 Posts: 312 Inactive	I've been building my team entirely in the farm system, yet I got some of the actual players of the roster in the FA, just to fill some gaps of older players that leave the team. This year is being regular, the higher pot player, and the only that still in the team, is a pitcher. ****** There were a time that you could build a team with just a FA, in a second you released your players and could get an entire roster. But that was unfair, because only those that were early birds could get the best players the bots sacked. Then came the Waiver System, in which if you want a player you have to "buy" a ticket, and if the luck was in your side, then you got it. That change bring a small balance to the Force... (SW reference)... As for today, build a team with barely the waiver system and the FA is only to compete for a second and third place in a LL6, as there are so many active managers than when I started. Less bots that sack good players to the waiver system, less players to search in the FA. A human manager never sack a pot 13 to 20 player unless he hits 32+ years and/or is not producing like in his prime, and here you have your diluted FA and Waiver.

#27556	12/02/2015 6:48:41 am
dwindacatcher Joined: 04/03/2014 Posts: 633 Inactive	I belive the problem isn't waivers/fa. It's the lack of decent pitching in the draft. I'm not saying great, just guys thay have any chance of making the majors. Guys with the report of only he will always be wild would never be drafted. They wouldn't even let those players try out. Why do we have them in the pools?

#27557	12/02/2015 8:21:54 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Rock and I will tell you that it can be done, you just gotta look hard enough/read the reports/know what builds to look for. . . . Now the hard-working owner is on par with a one-and-done owner You are kind of contradicting yourself here. I agree with the first statement, not the last. The search options have indeed made a lot of owners lazy, which has actually increased the parity, as there are a LOT more good sleepers sitting on FA that no one picked up because they couldn't be bothered to look at POT 12s. EDIT: I was a little unhappy when the search was upgraded because I thought it would make it more difficult for "hard-working" GMs to find gems, but from what I've seen its actually had the opposite effect. Now I find so many good players I have to stress over which ones to keep. Also, anyone who is looking to pull players from FA to have an immediate impact on their team is probably doing a poor job planning. A "hard-working" GM is always going to be looking 2 or 3 years down the road. Updated Wednesday, December 2 2015 @ 8:33:56 am PST

#27558	12/02/2015 8:24:01 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	A human manager never sack a pot 13 to 20 player I've sacked multiple POT 14s.

#27559	12/02/2015 8:39:34 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	@dwindacatcher - In any pool there is going to be bottom feeders. If you remove all the worst players, then the average players become the worst players. If you then remove the average players, then the above average players become unhirable. If you then remove the above average players then the good players become the new bottom feeders. A well balance pool is going to have as much garbage as gems. If we all got access to 5 players with Very Good potential every week, the game would quickly become very uninteresting. If pitchers were really too weak in this game, that would be reflected in league statistics. So far all of the leagues I've been in have had very respectable team ERAs, which implies the pitching is plenty strong.

#27560	12/02/2015 9:00:12 am
dwindacatcher Joined: 04/03/2014 Posts: 633 Inactive	Let me elaborate. I don't belive my point got across as inteded. Let's say you select high school pool. A player with "limited to a few innings" no potential information wouldn't be selected in a real life situation. Thay player, if he wants to continue to play, would have to go to the collegiate level. And if you selected for college that player should be going into accounting, not baseball. It is unrealistic to have such horrible low end players available to pick. HOWEVER, I am not saying everyone should be great. A system with more informative scouting, but more that don't pan out (don't gain the SI you expect) would make more sense to me. It would force us to actually watch minor league growth and not just toss them in recommended level and wait till it says majors.

#27567	12/02/2015 2:47:19 pm
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I don't think you understood what I am saying. Lets say there are 200 open spots on all minor rosters MLB. If you took the top 200 players coming out of high school and college, then relative to each other, some guys will have bad scouting reports and some will have good. They won't all be scouted as the best player available. In real life scouting is very flawed, and each team scouts differently. In a game that sort of thing isn't so easy to do, so we all have the same view. It doesn't change the fact that these scouting reports are RELATIVE to the other players. ALL of the players in our scout pools were super stars in high school and college. Its just that some of them got bad reports from our scouts. And yes, those guys don't get drafted and aren't invited to tryouts. They sit in the pool until they get dumped out at the end of the season.

#27590	12/03/2015 12:12:50 am
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	I started seven seasons ago. I easily picked off free agents and waiver claims to turn my roster over. Now there are far more owners and they have a better understanding of the game. My first two seasons I put in 143 and 157 claims (the first season I missed the off season madness). I average less than 50 now. Granted some of that is because I have a better roster than before, but the number of quality players available has dwindled considerably. That means you have to rely on the draft more than before. My major league roster has one player and one pitcher that I drafted (hence the nickname The Chosen One for my position player). I have zero in AAA. I don't think I could create this team today thru free agency and waivers. As time progresses, drafting will continue to be more important. That's why an improved drafting system needs to be considered now; it will take many seasons for the impact to take effect.

#27592	12/03/2015 7:08:03 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I started playing the same time as you. I haven't noticed any decline in the quality of players available through waivers, and I still require just as heavily on waivers to build my team now as I did 7 seasons ago. The draft has never been a good single source of players, you're standards have just risen as you've made your team better through the seasons.

#27593	12/03/2015 7:34:26 am
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5202 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	You make a good point earlier on Rock777. Lower potential players can be fine. My former player McCoy is better than half the 14s out there (and some of the 15s). Smaller bar players are lower % play - you are often gambling on them reaching the top end of their range. But I don't think there is any question that acquiring any of these players is more difficult now. A higher % of human managers increases demand. There are several factors reducing supply. The AI was tweaked so computer managers were less likely to ravage their roster. I also think the equalization in attendance has decreased the number of bots forced into bankruptcy. These factors apply to the smaller bar guys too. I chase these players too, and they are not as easy to acquire as they once were. Can be frustrating. Neither waivers no draft picks are likely to provide immediate answers. Its all about having a long term plan, and being persistent trying to fill gaps in the plan before they become a big league issue.

#27614	12/03/2015 6:05:16 pm
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I think the long term planning aspect is the key. If you are desperately searching for a SS on FA because you have no one on your team, then you have failed at the most basic GM task. It may be more difficult to get good players, but its more difficult for everyone. Its a fair playing field. If it means that some of the bot teams are more competitive, I think that's a good thing. Personally I'm finding myself cutting very good POT 13s that I would rather keep, because for me it is still too easy to find good players.

#27618	12/03/2015 10:56:54 pm
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Everyone can go after free agents and waivers. There's nothing to be done about getting dogs in the draft, though. There are guys who have gotten 3+ 15s or better since 2024, while there are owners who have never seen one. I've gone seven seasons without seeing any and I would bet there are many who have played much longer than me without scoring a blue chip. That's not a level playing field. Waivers is part luck, part effort. Drafts are pure luck. That's fine if it gives everyone somewhat equal talent, but that's far from the case. With drafting becoming more important with each passing season, this will continue making the game more of a crapshoot. I simply don't understand any argument against making drafts fairly equitable. It's the most bizarre argument here (except for the truly wacked things like opinions that violate the laws of mathematics and such).

#27628	12/04/2015 5:40:22 am
PrivateSnowflake Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 1169 Bloomington Thunder Legends	I took over a club that had lost 100 games the year prior. Overhauled the roster with FA's and waivers and immediately won 92 then 99 games. I've drafted six 13's and one 14 in 4-1/2 seasons. Even if they all hit, I still can't replace everyone. But I'm supposed to be happy with 12's? If my guys top out at 100-110, how can I possibly compete with teams with higher SI players? You can't. I can't even stay in LL5. I won 116 games last year in 6 and am on pace to lose 110 this year. Same thing happened two years ago. I went from 99 wins to 99 losses with the same players. Show me winning clubs in the top 4 leagues that are full of 12's and 13's. There aren't any. If anyone wants to prove they can do it, go right ahead. Do it this year before the parity crushes us all. This socialist-style of picking up talent is only going to ensure we all just stay right where we are. No more rags to riches clubs. In maybe 5 seasons everyone will have the same level of talent and you won't be able to tell a LL2 team from a LL5 team. I've looked at the transactions of the Legends teams. It looks like mine. Problem is, I'll have to jump every single club between 6 and 2 to get to the mountaintop, not to mention the monetary constraints of lower division clubs will keep them from signing their own talent, giving the rich clubs a pool of players only they can sign (in time). I don't have the perfect answer, nobody does. The draft should never be a guarantee (it isn't in real life). But remove the pot search from the FA list.

#27635	12/04/2015 6:30:00 am
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Private, I don't understand what your point is. I'll start with your conclusion-take away the potential search for free agents. Only fringe players are available via free agency, so who really cares? You said you can't compete with guys in the low 100s; there aren't any free agents better than that anyway. You're overlooking one of the key things that's killing you-the draft. Roughly 40% of drafted players have potential of 13+ (that's what I'm remembering from some research I did many seasons ago anyway). With 4.5 seasons under your belt, you should have drafted 18 guys with 13+ potential. You've gotten 7, so you're behind the average by 11 quality players. That's enormous! Assuming quality players have an average of seven years in the majors (ages 25 to 32), you could continually restock your big league roster with nothing but your own draft picks if you got the four guys every year like the average owner does. Sure, some of them won't pan out; that's what waivers are for. As more owners join and as owners continue to improve, drafting will become even more significant. I'm still confused about most of your rant. Parity should be embraced, not forsaken. All owners should be given a fair shake. It's then up to them to make the decisions and moves necessary to separate them from the pack. Right now teams don't start level. Some get great drafts; others get squat. The base of the game is tilted. It's like playing chess where your queen is replaced with a knight while your opponent gets an extra queen in lieu of one of their knights. Could you win? Possibly, but it's not a fair contest. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 6:36:02 am PST

#27636	12/04/2015 6:54:31 am
Mig2015 Joined: 06/17/2015 Posts: 162 Inactive	I think its mostly luck. I have to say, from the moment I took over this team, I have had nothing but luck. I'll give some examples: 1. First draft pick ever with this team -- 16 POT pitcher 2. 5th Round draft pick -- Someone is projected to have "good potential"......... he has 15 POT 3. Last season, in a span of 1 week, I claimed 3 guys with more than 19 claims, including an excellent 12 POT DH Castellonas with 46 claims 4. Another 15 POT draft pick this season 5. Yesterday alone, I got three waiver claims. One was a 12 POT hitter who can be great. He had just 2 claims. However, the other two both had more than *45 claims*. Obviously there is some level of dedication required to put in claims for these players, but once someone actually takes the time to make the claims, it is all luck. I don't mean to fan the flames, but that is my two cents.

#27637	12/04/2015 7:00:41 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I've never drafted a 15 either. This year is the first year I've ever even had a 15 on my roster (through waivers), and he is a complete dog. Since the draft started recording I've pulled 6/20 players 13+ (three this year). Two of those were 14s, one of which I dropped because he had a bad build. @PrivateSnowflake - I currently have five 14s, fourteen 13s, and seven 12s on my team. So that's at least one team of mostly 12s and 13s that is playing competitively at LL-3. EDIT: BTW, I have discarded several POT 14s from my minors system as well. My current minors is four 14s, eleven 13s, and seven 12s. Pretty similar ratio to my majors. Why would I be dropping 14s when I have 12s in my minors? Because the 12s are better. People seriously need to learn to look at more than just POT. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 7:38:34 am PST

#27638	12/04/2015 7:05:46 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Games with no element of luck are snooze fests. And the draft is the most luck driven element of real baseball. I like getting a lotto ticket every Friday and seeing if I've gotten a potential super star, or another small fry to throw back into the pond. Out of the last 20 draft picks I've drawn, I've only kept 2. 10% seems like about the right hit rate for a team with a fully built minors system. Mike, I completely understand your point and your strong convictions on the topic. I just disagree that luck is bad (despite me being one of the most unlucky drafters in the game). Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 7:16:45 am PST

#27639	12/04/2015 7:09:39 am
Carcharoth Joined: 07/16/2015 Posts: 149 Inactive	I just wanted to throw my two cents in here... First off, Private you really can't compare results year over year, especially as you move between leagues. The quality of teams is so variable down at our leagues that nothing really is for sure. I saw you destroyed your league last year, mostly on the basis of your offense. I'm going to go out on a limb and say the pitching in your LL VI league was less than strong :P. I know my team OPS has dropped about 50 points this season compared to last and I'm one of the worst offensive teams in the division (worse than you too I think), and I chalk it up to facing better pitching. I agree that there are benefits to removing the potential from FA search. I started playing this game even after the potential stat was added to player cards, and I think drafting and training would be more variable and interesting without it, although it certainly helped a me throw out claims etc. when I first started. However, I disagree that it has led to complete parity among managers. There are many strong 12 POT players who can have a place on teams outside perhaps the top handful of leagues. My closer and top reliever are both 11 POT players but have effective skill distributions. POT and SI do not directly translate into performance. I knew from last season that my pitching was weak, so I went on the free agent market looking for upgrades. Certainly at the top of the search are the high POT/SI pitchers who cost a fortune and have 100+ claims on them, but close behind are the pitchers with good enough pitches to give you quality innings. Today I picked up Contreras on waivers, who I think can be effective at our level. The only reason I threw him back was because upon closer inspection, his peripherals were too similar to Floyd and he is 3 years older. Lastly, on the topic of finding hidden gems in FA, it can be very effective to look for medium POT castoffs from other teams who didn't have room to train them. Two seasons ago I signed Ramires as a free agent, a 23 year old with just 69 SI. After throwing him into the rotation last year, he rewarded me by popping over 20 SI; now he's at 98, nearly hitting his FB scouting report and sneaking in a decent curveball as well. All from a FA that no one else wanted to train. I'm doing the same with Callahan, Benavidez, and Dawson this season. I certainly don't expect all of them to pan out, but those that do will stabilize my rotation even in the absence of a great draft. Oh and if you look at my draft history it sounds about as good (bad?) as Rock's. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 7:16:19 am PST

#27644	12/04/2015 8:41:42 am
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	My "luck" is all over the place, so I can't complain. I've pulled a 16 but I've also pulled a 9. On the other hand, I literally lost on every waiver claim since this off season, including one that only had 1 other claim! This may be balance from winning a claim last off season that was 50+ :p I'm with Rock though that pot and SI are less important than the actual builds. If you can't win with a team that averages 100 SI at LL5, you probably have poorly distributed 100s. I've been playing a handful of developing players in the 70-90 range the past couple seasons and didn't demote. Ready to start winning in a season or two once these guys start reaching their potentials.

#27645	12/04/2015 8:51:50 am
Slug5373 Joined: 12/23/2014 Posts: 376 Inactive	Ok, I will tell you my opinion. Anyone who says that you need 14 POT/15 POT to succeed are wrong (except probably legends and level II). No matter what, there are always undervalued players. Before, dedicated players who had time to invest could easily find 13,14, or even 15 POT players in waivers with only a few claims due to the lack of POT search. However, now that there is POT search, what is the logically undervalued pool of players? That's right -- all 11-12 POT players. Currently, I do not have any 12 POT players in minor leagues, but that is because I have not had time of late to sift through 12 POT players in waivers and FA. However, on my major league roster, I have 6 12 POT or lower. (My aging four time all-star closer is 11 POT. He pitched a season while still in his prime in D III with a sub 3 ERA and 45 saves. He was all-league that year.) The two 12 POT hitters I have both start, and the four 12 POT or less pitchers either have two all-star appearances, or a ROY award. The trick is to find 12 POT players that specialize in certain areas that you value more than others. You can easily find a solid 12 POT DH sitting around somewhere if you look long and hard enough. 1st basemen, corner outfielders, and catchers are relatively simple too. Bullpen pitchers with low fielding and stamina can make excellent relievers. And if you are able to draft a few 13 POT players to play the more difficult positions such as 2B, 3B, SS, and CF, you have yourself a team! I take it that anyone who even somewhat knows what they are doing can draft at least 2-3 13+ POT players in a season or pick one up from waivers. This is what the movie Moneyball was all about -- finding bargains, undervalued players, etc. The problem I'm having right now is that when I became the owner of my team, I had a good roster, but the bot had drafted horribly the past two seasons and I had basically no minor leagues, especially pitching. So, right now I'm waiting for my wave of young pitchers to come through, which is why I'm struggling so much this season. It is not because I'm playing lower POT players, as I have had a winning record in DIII the past two seasons with a similar roster. Anyways, long story short -- teams of 12/13 POT players can be made and can be successful. Yes, higher POT players are better in general, but don't claim that if you can't get a 14/15 POT player in a season that your life sucks and you'll never get a good team. Put in the time, find bargains or fill-in players to take the reigns until a better player comes along. I'm not talking to anyone specifically, this is just an in general speech. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 8:55:11 am PST

#27648	12/04/2015 9:22:28 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Generally agree, although I would say getting 2-3 13+ POT players is a good draft season from my experience. You could easily get shafted with just 1 even if you know what you are doing. Also, I think SS is the only player I would say HAS to be a POT 13 because you want Fielding, Range, and Arm all to be as high as possible on a SS. 3B doesn't need much range, 2B doesn't need any Arm, and CF can just be average on Fielding and Arm. Certainly its even better to have a CF with a gun, its just that you can get away with a little less Arm at CF then at SS. My current 3B for the future is only a POT 12. I am looking for a LHB with a better Hitting scout report, but I think he is a good example of a POT 12 who can be a solid contributor on a team at any level. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 9:24:00 am PST

#27650	12/04/2015 9:40:44 am
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	To further my point about low-100 SI being survivable in LL5... my average SI in the majors right now is 101.875. This is gradually going up as my players develop... so I most likely had a slightly lower average the past 2 seasons in which I stayed at that level without dropping to VI. Granted, I don't expect to promote either but that's more because I have a lot of holes in my offense and has nothing to do with SI. Some of the higher SI guys are the ones who are hitting like crap :p I could have easily been competitive this season had I been able to address the gaps in my team with waivers this off-season, but as I said before, I lost all claims. Not a normal occurrence... so I figure I'm just another season out from being able to get to IV again.

#27659	12/04/2015 11:01:18 am
PrivateSnowflake Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 1169 Bloomington Thunder Legends	Slug, I appreciate your post. It stinks being the one without the luck. Guys like Mike have the luck and for them the waiver wire isn't needed. He's got just as many keepers last season as I've had in 4.5 seasons. I get that. It's an anomaly. But he misses the fact that not everyone is as lucky and needs to hit on those "fringe" players if they want any hope of moving up. Guys like Rock are holding their league as the pipeline dries up. His 12's aren't helping him win (4-7, 5.2 era), and those minor league 12's aren't going to be relied upon. I would think you of all people would want another way of player acquisition, a way to acquire better talent. I put a lot of work into finding players. A lot. Don't you two dare say I'm not putting in the work. My transaction page clearly shows that. My roster is nothing but those "fringe" players you say I shouldn't rely upon. But, I do rely on them. That's why the rant, Mike. Don't look down your nose at us and give the broad assumption we aren't working as hard as you or aren't as smart as Rock. Mike you want an even playing field. Parity. Currently there are two ways to get players. Let's dilute that some to even out the field even more. To give others a "fairer" shot. Broken Bat needs a trade pool.

#27660	12/04/2015 11:29:59 am
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	You are absolutely wrong. I've relied on those 12s for many seasons. Instead of taking a convenient snapshot with a small sample, why not look at their long term contributions. Everyone's stats are all over the place right now. My 15 POT batter is hitting .169. If I use the same logic as you, POT 15 players are all useless.

#27661	12/04/2015 11:43:36 am
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	No on the trading. It would likely ruin the game. Trading is all about how well you can manipulate others and get their good players while unloading your garbage. I've seen it all too much in other games... the only way to get ahead when there's trading is to cheat others. In another sim, I try to build through the draft and free agency, partaking very little in trades. I feel like my team is going nowhere and has no real chance of improving. When I traded more actively, I was even worse off because I can't bring myself to rip people off and thus never offered deals that greatly benefited my team. So the ones that did screw everyone over are at the top. I would hate for broken bat to become that. Under the current system, I feel like I have a reasonable chance to improve my team by learning how to properly assess talent and build a good farm with future planning on mind. I can obtain my future in the given system without needing to be a shark and no other owner can weasel their team into being better or have an advantageous spot.

#27669	12/04/2015 12:54:02 pm
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9605 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I agree with Crazy Li. I like the fact that the game as is, is more focused on talent assessment then business acumen. There are already far too many games focused on the later and very few focused on the former. Also, just to note, if you are drafting every week you WILL eventually pull some 14s. That's why older teams have a lot of 14s. If you are a smart GM you won't necessarily keep all of those 14s, but some will make your system. You really need to play like 10 seasons before you will see a drastic impact on your team based on the strategy you've employed. After 4 1/2 season, most of your real improvement are still going to be sitting in the minors. EDIT: BTW, Nice pickup of Little (POT 14), I had a claim on him too. Updated Friday, December 4 2015 @ 12:56:47 pm PST

#27673	12/04/2015 2:34:23 pm
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Once again I'm completely perplexed by your post Snowflake. First of all, I've had slightly below average luck with the draft. If you think otherwise, you should check out the good ones. I've gotten zero 15s in 7+ seasons. My 13s and 14s are barely short of par. Second, I wasn't "looking down my nose" at anyone and have no idea where you got that. Wherever you came up with me saying you aren't smart or don't put in enough effort is completely on you; I said no such thing. Mike you want an even playing field. Parity. Currently there are two ways to get players. Let's dilute that some to even out the field even more. To give others a "fairer" shot. Yes, I do want an even playing field. What do your comments mean? What are you wanting or suggesting? I know you concluded that you want trades. I fail to see how that makes anything more fair. I'm suggesting more evenly distributed drafts because I think that's essential in creating a fair game. Other than trades, what exactly are you suggesting? Also, I think you're lumping free agency and waivers into one group as if they're the same. They aren't. While the numbers continue to go down, waivers has many quality guys to be claimed. However, there are very few impact players that make it past that and into free agency.

#27674	12/04/2015 2:40:04 pm
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	I had no interest in this discussion until the word trades came up. I liked Haselrig's idea provided the players traded to the trade pool were not deleted from the game. I still feel exactly the same way I did then about two team trades, no way it could work without exploit.

#27677	12/04/2015 3:39:41 pm
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	The trade pool idea sounds like an awkward system to me... but maybe I just didn't understand it :x