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Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function
#77243	09/10/2020 2:10:50 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
Cicco76 Joined: 02/19/2019 Posts: 51 Inactive	Can I still change a player's position at 26? do it just play in the new position? How long will it take? I would like to change them: https://brokenbat.org/player/201987 New position; SS --- https://brokenbat.org/player/217532 New position: 2B Thanks Updated Thursday, September 10 2020 @ 2:16:42 am PDT
#77245	09/10/2020 7:31:37 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	Are you positive you need both as middle infielders now? I agree they look like MIs from a cold start, but here's my logic: Neither have any experience at 2B, but Shepard is a year younger and has a tad more SS experience already (0.6 vs 0.4). One play you could make is get Shepard going on SS and sign a better 2B prospect. As a comp, i started giving Stewart SS reps when he was 24, and he got to full 3.0 SS just before he turned 28 I believe. He started at 0.4: http://brokenbat.org/player/176251/T If it were me, I'd send Shepard down to AAA, get him up to 1.0 at SS, then bring him back up and play him every day, and he'll be serviceable there in a year and at 3.0 around 28-29. I don't think you'd get either giving you really strong 2B presence for the next 3 years, and I'm not sure it would be productive with them. I've heard that "0.0" XP can actually be a negative number, which would make this exercise even more of a time suck.
#77246	09/10/2020 7:43:45 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	again not knowing your situation, if you wanted them both in the infield at least, Shepard has 3B XP too, so you could do Shepard at 3B and O'neill at SS. hate to use a 19 arm at 2B! I think Shepard needs some more AAA training and reps anyway, so it will be fine for him and I'd start him out on this exercise down there this year.
#77247	09/10/2020 8:03:47 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
AssumedPseudonym Joined: 10/26/2016 Posts: 1130 Deerfield Beach Rats V.7	Russel Jonsson is my own example of switching an outfielder to shortstop after he’d already been brought up to the Majors. Granted, Steve might have tinkered with positional learning rates since then, but I think it’s still doable. …As long as you accept that you’re very definitely not going to be earning any Gold Gloves at short throughout the transition period.
#77250	09/10/2020 10:21:04 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I think it took me about 7 seasons to train up a minor league 2B from no experience. Major leagues is faster, and SS probably takes a bit longer. So AP's 6 seasons for SS seems to jive. If you don't mind them making LOTS of errors for 4-5 seasons, then it is certainly doable. But I'm not sure its worth it. You'll get fewer overall errors from an experienced less optimal build over the course of those guys' careers.
#77251	09/10/2020 11:56:26 am	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Is SS really slower? With more chances don't you gain position knowledge faster? While SS may be a more complex position, they do get a lot of chances. Sort of think this evens out. I think 6 seasons is too high. (That's basically the same number of seasons as minor training). Looking at my guys ~0.8 per season is about what to expect for a middle infielder. That's around 4 seasons. It's still a bad proposition for 26 year olds. Sucks to have skills dropping before you master your position.
#77252	09/10/2020 12:36:16 pm	Mar 12th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	I agree I think 4 seasons is more realistic, assuming the player starts in the neighborhood of 0.5 skill and gets a full workload at that position over that time frame. I think AP's example he shifted some playing time to 1B part way through the changeover. With Stewart I put him full throttle at SS and the changeover was around 4 years from 0.4 to 3.0
#77255	09/10/2020 3:15:30 pm	Mar 13th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Its not a question of realism, just a question of fact. Position knowledge is based on defensive appearances (innings), not attempts. If it take 4 years it take 4 years, if it takes 6 it takes 6. It looks like you have recent data suggesting 4 seasons. Its also worth taking your managers skills into account as that is also a factor in training speed. JohnnyBoi62's manager is WAY better at fielding dev than AP's. It looks like AP used his guy for 1 season in the OF, but at SS for the rest of the time, so I'd shave a year off his time frame which puts him at 5 years to train his guy in the majors (playing pretty much every game). Even if its 4 season. I wouldn't bother with a 25/26 year old. They aren't going to be good fielders until they are 29/30 years old. Only if you plan on rebuilding for the next 3 seasons anyhow. Cicco76 actually has a fabulous fielding training manager. So maybe you'll get down under 4 season. But I would still expect it to take close to 4 seasons. Updated Thursday, September 10 2020 @ 3:26:15 pm PDT
#77259	09/10/2020 4:17:30 pm	Mar 13th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	Sorry Rock, by “realistic” here I was referring to my prior experience inside BrokenBat, such as with Stewart. I know I’ve used that term differently in the past. Bottom line my opinion is it’s a borderline move for the original poster, so I tried to explain that and suggest an alternative with the SS/3B adjustment. I don’t like to get too detailed in my expectations, but I agree I think it would take 4-5 years of near full time work to move from 0.4->3.0 at a middle infield position. Seems like a lot of work and time sunk with subpar defenders up the middle in the majors to end up with 30-31!year old guys in the case of those 2. I did it with Stewart because he was a bit younger and his build was begging for it and some nice player suggested it to me when I was new.
#77264	09/10/2020 4:39:08 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Seca actually has the closest to neutral for dev. He said ~4 seasons. Johnny's manager is better at dev and he saw ~4 seasons. AP saw 5 season with horrendous fielding dev. So my guess is that with a fabulous fielding dev guy you might get down below 4 seasons, but I doubt it will get any lower then 3.5.
#77265	09/10/2020 5:42:24 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	Actually the manager who coached Stewart through a lot of the transition was "Wham Bam" Cam Cunningham. So far Cam is most notable for his powerful offensive squads, somehow winning the freaking BrokenBat cup with Boulder, and also occasionally tripping over his two left feet for how clumsy he is. This clumsiness translates to some lackluster defense and defensive development. He managed in Florissant all the way through the end of 2044 season, but since I changed managers on the last day, Ortiz gets credited for that year in the history books. Here's Cam for you: http://brokenbat.org/manager/3395 It's very interesting how similar all the transitions have been, given the differences noted. Just another tid bit to consider. My personal takeaway is try and keep the start age of major position changes to 24 or under. Obviously if a great candidate is available, my out is that some rules are made to be broken.
#77267	09/10/2020 6:58:07 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	LOL Ok, lets take a step back and take a slightly deeper look. Stewart increased 2.5 points between 2043 and 2046, with an average coaching of 8.33. Jonsson increased 3 points between 2030 and 2037 with an average coaching of 5.7 (but also a year off in which he would have experienced some decline). This would seem to indicate that 1 point of coaching skill equates to 0.1 point of fielding growth per year (for a SS). That number also jives with what Seca has seen with a manager skill of 8. It also seems to compute with what I have been seeing with my guys with an 11 manager skill. If (big if) that logic follows, then the Swallow's manager (19 skill) might actually be able to train up a player in 1.5 seasons! I am VERY suspect of that assumption based on only a few data points though. More data is really needed. Especially from someone who actually has a manager with good fielding development skills. But if its really only 1.5 seasons... It might not be so bad. Updated Thursday, September 10 2020 @ 7:03:18 pm PDT
#77268	09/10/2020 7:44:32 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
AssumedPseudonym Joined: 10/26/2016 Posts: 1130 Deerfield Beach Rats V.7	Also worth mentioning, in addition to the season he spent in right field, a couple of his earlier seasons were under higher fielding developing managers than McAndrews. Also also worth mentioning, those seasons were before Steve differentiated fielding and pitching from hitting, so he would have been benefiting from 15 and 18 development for the first two-and-a-half seasons of my ownership of the team.  And finally, quick question: Do we actually know if learning a position goes faster or slower based on a manager’s development rating? I’d always been under the impression that it’s a fixed rate (and possibly adjusted by some hidden variable on the player).
#77271	09/10/2020 9:07:04 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	That's why I put down 5.7 and not 4 for your manager's fielding skill I assume managers do effect position knowledge. Otherwise, what is the point of Fielding Development. If it was only for the one skill of Fielding, it would be of very unbalanced value. The numbers I compared above do seem to indicate a direct correlation between position knowledge growth and Fielding Development.
#77273	09/10/2020 11:28:29 pm	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Cicco76 Joined: 02/19/2019 Posts: 51 Inactive	Thanks to all of you for clearing my doubts, a very newbie question, how do you EXACTLY know the level of knowledge gained in a position? Really thanks again
#77274	09/11/2020 12:06:42 am	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	If you go to the "Development Graph" view on a player's page (drop down at the bottom), and scroll to the very bottom you can see how much experience they have at each position. O'Neil for instance has 0.4 experience in SS. 3.0 is maxed out.
#77275	09/11/2020 2:36:52 am	Mar 14th, 2047	Ignore
Cicco76 Joined: 02/19/2019 Posts: 51 Inactive	Magic
#77330	09/13/2020 8:31:03 am	Mar 18th, 2047	Ignore
Brewnoe Joined: 03/25/2014 Posts: 818 Fall River Naughty Dawgs IV.5	Hmm .. same idea. Mateo Galindo came out of the 3B pool, looked like my future SS... Got a new SS and 3B Should I keep trying to fit Matty into 2b?
#77331	09/13/2020 8:50:30 am	Mar 18th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I wouldn't.
#77332	09/13/2020 9:32:01 am	Mar 18th, 2047	Ignore
Brewnoe Joined: 03/25/2014 Posts: 818 Fall River Naughty Dawgs IV.5	Almost helpful ... what would you do with him?
#77334	09/13/2020 2:30:28 pm	Mar 19th, 2047	Ignore
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	Bechtel (new 3B) is young. Needs another year in AAA at least. I'd give Galindo reps at 3B this year then make a decision next year at this time about who gets to be "starter". Having a good SS/3B backup is worthwhile too, so if Galindo ever only ends up being that, he'd still be useful.
#77335	09/13/2020 2:47:08 pm	Mar 19th, 2047	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9602 Haverhill Halflings III.1	You could also play Tsukahara at 2B. He is the better SS, but he is a much better 2B than Galindo. At 24, with his skill already at 2.2, its not a bad investment to get Tsukahara dual positioned anyhow. Just gives you more flexibility moving forward. I suspect Tsukahara is more likely to end up in the backup role, and being a SS/2B will give him a lot more value. Updated Sunday, September 13 2020 @ 2:51:31 pm PDT
#77414	09/16/2020 9:59:03 pm	Apr 3rd, 2047	Ignore
Brewnoe Joined: 03/25/2014 Posts: 818 Fall River Naughty Dawgs IV.5	Elders have spoken. I'm still leaning towards ... 24yo Kazuo "Samurai Cat" Tsukahara at SS and 27yo Mateo Galindo working on 2B. My AAA (turning into quad-A) options @ Middle IF backup / utility look much better at 2B - Juan Velázquez and C.J. Brennan and the prodigal son returns bit... "Flying Pasgetti" Rossetti should cover 3B decently until Betchel is ready. I do hope my next draft pick steals the future SS spot.
#78162	10/23/2020 6:21:42 am	Aug 19th, 2047	Ignore
Brewnoe Joined: 03/25/2014 Posts: 818 Fall River Naughty Dawgs IV.5	Looks like I picked the right time (Airplane jokes) Rotation with 1,0,1,0,2 exp 19 games back. 8-24 in one run games. Only thing left to ask ... where's my youth movement?
#78215	10/24/2020 1:32:37 pm	Aug 21st, 2047	Ignore
amalric7 Joined: 01/20/2016 Posts: 2238 New York Lancers V.4	Only thing left to ask ... where's my youth movement? You grew out of it. As to your actual quandary, I'd have Galindo, Tsukahara and Bechtel exactly where you have them.

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