Broken Bat - Discussion Forum: how to build a good pitching strategy

Forum >> Discussions >> how to build a good pitching strategy

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#77029	08/31/2020 5:03:32 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Sure. Not all innings are created equal. We can use the numbers that you put out there as an example. A starter throwing 200 pitches, is probably pitching in 30 - 35 games. If a Closer throws 70 (which is a lot), then we are talking 70 games. That means they are influencing the outcome of twice as many games. From that alone I would say they are twice as important. But then you want to consider the importance of the inning. Starters will throw a lot of garbage innings. Maybe you lost the game in the 1st inning. Maybe you won the game in the first inning. The Starter continues to pitch in innings that are not important. Maybe only 50 of the Starters 200 innings are actually impactful. The Closer is ALWAYS pitching in critical innings by definition. 70 is a lot of games, but unless you have a very poor team, your Closers always pitch in more game than the Starters. Add to that the fact that Closers are pitching in critical innings; Closer is the most important role. Updated Monday, August 31 2020 @ 5:06:00 pm PDT

#77030	08/31/2020 6:19:56 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Jerbeetwo Joined: 06/30/2019 Posts: 325 Tyler Goldendoodles IV.3	Just continuing the discussion. You do bring up some good points about starter innings not being as important as closer innings. But not all closer innings are critical either. Think of the times a closer goes into the game in the ninth with a 3 run lead. Sure he saves the game and it could be considered an important inning but you would hope anybody on your staff could get those three outs without losing the game. The Yankees don’t make Gerritt Cole their closer for a reason. They want him to pitch 200 innings, not 60-70.

#77031	08/31/2020 6:26:19 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	The reason a Closer comes in is because it is considered a critical situation. If you don't think you need your Closer with a 3 run lead, you might try changing his RD to be 1/2. I think that might prevent him being used with a three run lead. Regardless, even if you discount 3 run leads, the Closer pitches in more games, and pitches in more critical innings. That is why I consider them more important. In real life the decision to make someone a closer or starter is not just a matter of stamina. There are a number of reasons the Yankees don't make Cole a Closer (yet). I disagree with your assumption that they use him as a Starter simply to get more innings out of him. Can you imagine the hilarity that would ensue if a team put a choke artist like David Price in the Closer role Updated Monday, August 31 2020 @ 6:36:01 pm PDT

#77032	08/31/2020 6:37:34 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Jerbeetwo Joined: 06/30/2019 Posts: 325 Tyler Goldendoodles IV.3	Well good discussion. You give me some things to think about.

#77034	08/31/2020 6:48:10 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
timothy Joined: 03/18/2020 Posts: 202 West Fargo Turtles II.1	I would argue that the only garbage innings occur in blowouts, so saying that only around 50 of a starter's 200 innings are important seems very low to me.

#77036	08/31/2020 7:09:57 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	That is certainly arguable. The issue is that its hard to tell if the innings mattered until the game is over. But there is no arguing that a Closer pitches in more games, and every game the Closer pitches in is critical.

#77037	08/31/2020 7:13:01 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	BTW, I'm not necessarily advocating that you take your superstar POT 15 pitcher with 16 stamina and make him you closer. Its usually easier to find low stamina guys with really strong tools. Maybe the closer isn't your best all around guy on the staff (maybe that is your Ace), but I am arguing that they are the most important. So I prioritize getting someone solid in there. In some cases it will be a guy with lots of stamina just because no one in your bullpen really qualifies. On my staff, 11 is a good amount of stamina. McNabb was supposed to be a SP/LHS. But he was so dominant, I ended up using him as a Closer for a good chunk of his career. I demoted him to a Starting pitcher role when age started to catch up to him. Updated Monday, August 31 2020 @ 7:18:45 pm PDT

#77038	08/31/2020 7:53:49 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Closers are overrated, especially here where there is no psychology of players or the need to have a pitcher warm up before entering the game. Late in the game it's far more important to have your best pitcher in when it's tied than when you have a three run lead.

#77041	08/31/2020 9:36:37 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	I wish we could set our closer logic to be 0/2, but they still pitch the most critical innings. Thus, not possible to overrate the position.

#77042	08/31/2020 10:27:54 pm	Jan 15th, 2047
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	The most critical innings are when it's tied late in the game. The only time closers pitch in that scenario are when they've blown the lead. If used properly here, set-up guys are much more valuable than closers. It's not even close.