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Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function
#73636	05/16/2020 3:30:40 pm	Jul 26th, 2045	Ignore
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Hmmm. Is that what's supposed to happen? The starting pitcher doesn't pitch 5 innings, so he can't win. A reliever comes in, walks a guy and is immediately pulled. Another reliever comes in and records the final out of the fifth. The game awarded the win to the pitcher who walked the only batter he faced. That can't be right. Updated Saturday, May 16 2020 @ 3:31:25 pm PDT
#73640	05/16/2020 5:03:15 pm	Jul 27th, 2045	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9595 Haverhill Halflings III.1	The rules for wins are very vague and subjective. It would really be a waste of time for Steve to try and write an algorithm for pitcher effectiveness, and everyone would argue it was wrong anyhow.
#73642	05/16/2020 5:25:09 pm	Jul 27th, 2045	Ignore
AssumedPseudonym Joined: 10/26/2016 Posts: 1130 Deerfield Beach Rats V.7	In this case, I think this is technically the correct behavior. Saying it’s dumb is kinda like saying the Pacific Ocean is wet — true, obvious, and an understatement — but it’s rules-as-written. The rules say a starter has to pitch five innings to record a win, but I don’t think anything says a reliever has to finish the fifth inning to qualify.  As for an effectiveness algorithm, to avoid ridiculousness like this, all you really need is a check to see if a pitcher records an out. If not, give the W to the next pitcher who records one and doesn’t give up the lead.  Congrats on finding a really bizarre edge case, though. Updated Saturday, May 16 2020 @ 5:27:18 pm PDT
#73647	05/16/2020 6:23:19 pm	Jul 27th, 2045	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9595 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Actually the rules say that the win goes to the "most effective reliever". They also say that a reliever doesn't get the win if they are "brief and ineffective." Both of those "measures" are vague and ineffective. It doesn't make sense to try and decided what effective means, since no one would agree. One out? Maybe? But I'm sure some would disagree. Seems like a lot of work to try and make sure the best relief pitcher gets the win. Especially given wins are a meaningless stat for relief pitchers.
#73648	05/16/2020 6:33:44 pm	Jul 28th, 2045	Ignore
AssumedPseudonym Joined: 10/26/2016 Posts: 1130 Deerfield Beach Rats V.7	The rules do say not to credit an ineffective reliever with a win, yes, but absent any sort of judgment as to what constitutes an effective relief appearance, it is absolutely possible for a reliever to win a ballgame without recording an out.  I don’t think there’s anybody on the forum who would consider a relief appearance consisting of one batter faced and letting him get on base to have been an effective outing on the pitcher’s part. At least if he records an out, he’s managed to accomplish something meaningful that benefits the team in some fashion during the game, whether the outing could realistically be considered effective or not. That was the thrust of my suggestion.
#73649	05/16/2020 6:43:23 pm	Jul 28th, 2045	Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9595 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Sure. I wouldn't be against that being the algorithm. I'm just not convinced it wouldn't let the nit-pickers out of Pandora's box. If you put it as a suggestion, I would plus it. Updated Saturday, May 16 2020 @ 6:45:54 pm PDT
#73651	05/16/2020 7:03:22 pm	Jul 28th, 2045	Ignore
AssumedPseudonym Joined: 10/26/2016 Posts: 1130 Deerfield Beach Rats V.7	“I'm just not convinced it wouldn't let the nit-pickers out of Pandora's box.”  *…Snrk.* Okay, fair point, heh.
#73656	05/16/2020 9:17:24 pm	Jul 28th, 2045	Ignore
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	I just thought it was funny. I'm sure he celebrated his walk win with a cool beverage that night.
#73658	05/16/2020 9:30:15 pm	Jul 28th, 2045
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator	Yeah, if the starting pitcher doesn't go 5 innings, then the first relief pitcher is credited with the win. I don't know if its a common enough occurrence to warrant changing the winning pitcher assignment. Anyway, I'm wondering if that rule will change soon with the advent of openers rather than starting pitchers. Steve

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