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Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function
#25578	10/21/2015 3:11:11 pm		Ignore
Benchwarmer Joined: 01/06/2015 Posts: 445 Inactive	At your league level, I think dud. But down here in LL V or VI there are some teams that would kill to have a pitcher like that. It's all in your perspective.
#25600	10/22/2015 7:12:18 am		Ignore
dwindacatcher Joined: 04/03/2014 Posts: 633 Inactive	@pig I'm guessing dud. He could be good in low levels, but probably still not very good there. @Seca so I'm not the only one that scouts pitching thay way. @rock I think you might be being a bit hard on "average" a 15 gives you some kind of positive scouting report. 12 should be more average as you can hit 12 with no mention of the skill in scouting.
#25605	10/22/2015 9:25:19 am		Ignore
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	I think "average" is situational but in general, 12 sounds about right. For the range on a SS though for example, 12 would be very much below average, because you wouldn't really see someone with range that poor be given the chance. That's where 15 for average sounds more right.
#25616	10/22/2015 3:13:37 pm		Ignore
Pig_Cola Joined: 09/15/2013 Posts: 1445 Glendale Marshals III.2	@Benchwarmer, I agree he can be a really good pitcher in the lower league levels, but I don't think he's a complete dud up here. He has had some solid starts that the team has benefited from.
#25623	10/22/2015 4:21:41 pm		Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Well in my experience 12 Hitting means a bad batting average. 12 PD means more Ks than BBs. 12 Power means just a few HRs. 12 in pitching ratings means you have a really bad ERA. So no I think 12 is bad. If you have a team for of guys with all their skills capped at 12, you have a VERY bad team. Not an average team. The guys on my team who provide average performances generally have a skill distribution that averages out to ~15 in the relevant ratings. I would call 15 an average range rating. Its just that you want an above average range for SS while you'll be fine having a very below average range at 1B. Average is more about comparing against the rest of the players in the game who are actually on teams. Guys with a lot of ratings at 12 are going to be sitting in FA not on someone's team. If you include all the POT 10 and POT 11s, then sure its going to average out around 12, but those guys are mostly sitting on FA. EDIT: BTW, the only place where 12 gives you a positive report is "fastball has some pop". I consider that a red herring rating because those pitcher actually don't have very good fastballs and generally have bad ERAs to show for it unless they have another good pitch to compensate. Updated Thursday, October 22 2015 @ 4:26:55 pm PDT
#25624	10/22/2015 4:25:13 pm		Ignore
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	Maybe depends on level? 13 is where pitchers have to start hitting when they start putting up decent numbers for me. 15-16 is more like what my stars are. Example:brokenbat.org/player/78257 13/12/13/14 and putting up respectable numbers at this point. Updated Thursday, October 22 2015 @ 4:28:45 pm PDT
#25625	10/22/2015 4:31:58 pm		Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Level definitely factors in. For me, my pitchers generally can't perform until 15. But there are always exceptions. Regardless average is less about performance and more about the comparison to other players. For me personally anything about 15 is good. 12 is below average. 8 is bad. 4 is unthinkable. That is how I evaluate players.
#25628	10/22/2015 4:37:02 pm		Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	First off, that guy is still improving, so he should end up as a pretty good pitcher. Other factors: LL as you stated Reality obscured His FIP is a little concerning given his LL He could be better than you can see, or others are worse that I am calling below average. I have seen plenty of below average players who perform well, while players who have EVERY rating at a higher level perform like garbage. There is a lot of behind the scenes unexplainable stuff that happens. Looking at that pitchers ratings in a black box I would never sign him. He looks pretty bad on paper. Looking at his stats changes things. That's why you always have to look at the whole picture. But yes. Just looking at his ratings I would definitely call him a below average pitcher. Updated Thursday, October 22 2015 @ 4:40:29 pm PDT
#25629	10/22/2015 4:41:49 pm		Ignore
Crazy Li Joined: 01/25/2015 Posts: 879 Inactive	He lines up with what gives average results in my league from my observations. He's actually doing better than most with those ratings, but most tend to be average-ish. I'm sure he wouldn't do so well at IV without gaining more pitching points. Just figured I'd explain my skewed perspective. Really average should probably be average for LL3-4 since that's in the middle Updated Thursday, October 22 2015 @ 4:43:47 pm PDT Updated Thursday, October 22 2015 @ 4:45:18 pm PDT
#25633	10/22/2015 5:50:32 pm		Ignore
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9597 Haverhill Halflings III.1	Somewhat of a semantic argument. We'll each have our own definition. I was just trying to clarifying what I meant when I used the word average in the post way up above.

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