Broken Bat - Discussion Forum: really quick vs decent speed

Forum >> Discussions >> really quick vs decent speed

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function

#25181	10/12/2015 7:30:58 am
Tiger504 Joined: 06/17/2014 Posts: 1314 Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers III.4	Does anyone else think that decent speed MIGHT be a better scouting report for base stealers than really quick? I have two guys in my minors who are prolific base stealers and they are both decent speed. While the really quick guys stand still. Not much of a sample size I know. Also I think it MIGHT be possible for a guy to learn to steal effectively in this game engine. Kind of a success breeds success sort of thing. For example, several seasons ago I had 11 speed Jack Esposito steal 30 and 40 bases. For the first season he got many of his thefts, at least half, on the back of Angelo Juarez as part of a double steal but then he started swiping bases in good numbers himself. Again, small sample size. Of course this is all just theory and speculation.

#25183	10/12/2015 7:52:17 am
Favuz Joined: 02/26/2014 Posts: 638 Oxnard Sunsets IV.3	i think that speed means only speed, not the ability to steal. I've got in my team guys with 18+ speed who don't reach 5 SB in a season, others with 15-17 who steal 40-50 bases. For this reason, when you draft a player with speed scouting report, you have to wait few weeks to see how he'll probably go once in the majors. Anyway, when i draft a player i look for other description other than speed. I tend to prefer a 13 POT guy with 10- speed and the right distribution of skill rather than a 14 pot with 18+ speed and no hitting report (for example). Updated Monday, October 12 2015 @ 7:54:32 am PDT

#25184	10/12/2015 7:56:18 am
Pig_Cola Joined: 09/15/2013 Posts: 1445 Glendale Marshals III.2	I've observed the same thing too, Tiger. SS Willie Rice is a better base stealer than my players scouted with really quick. Rice has a decent speed scout. Rice so far has stolen 39 bases compared to Stein, Hwang, and Marquez, who have respectively stolen 27 bases combined. Then you have Holloway. He has a decent speed scout and has stolen 14 bases, while Stein has stolen 18. So my guess here is that all players steal bases more or less to their scouting report. It's how they feel like. Some really quick players don't steal bases much, while decent speed players can steal a lot of bases.

#25185	10/12/2015 8:25:28 am
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	Decent speed isn't "better" than "really quick" what you are seeing are the hidden variables such as ability to get leads and anticipation of when to steal. As Favuz mentioned wait a few weeks after drafting to see whether they are good at stealing bases. Bentley and Reyna both are excellent examples of guys who know how to steal and are "really quick" both were on pace for 90+ steals this season at the all-star break. As a further note, the majority of Bentley and Reyna's steals have come against catchers with 17 arms or better and a capital "C" in position eligibility this season meaning they can and do steal on some of the best catching arms in the game. Updated Monday, October 12 2015 @ 8:28:22 am PDT

#25187	10/12/2015 10:08:10 am
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	As a small ball manager I can attest to the fact that speed has almost nothing to do with stealing ability. It has been brought up before, the wording of the scouting report has even changed to "reinforce" this idea. In so much as just because I player's scouting report states they are an above average slugger, it won't mean they'll ever hit a home run. (Of course this is typically because another batting skill is very poor). For potential base thieves we don't get to see whatever value makes them poor at it.

#25193	10/12/2015 3:51:41 pm
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	Spoon, the part you are leaving out is that a guy with decent speed who is good at stealing bases may put up 40 or 50 SBs, but a guy who is really quick AND is good at stealing can still steal 90 to 100 bases in a season. Thus really quick is still better than decent speed if both have the base stealing hidden trait. That said a guy who has the hidden trait and only has decent speed is better than a really quick guy without the trait, but the real thing that makes him better is the hidden trait, not the lower speed value. Edit: Power is not just home runs, it is also the skill that drives the ball deep to the gaps getting doubles and triples. That is where the interplay between speed and power is important as a really quick guy has a higher chance of turning that double to the gap into a triple. Updated Monday, October 12 2015 @ 3:55:49 pm PDT

#25213	10/13/2015 12:38:18 am
Endrju Joined: 05/28/2015 Posts: 577 Inactive	There must be some kind of hidden attribute that defines a player's will and ability to steal a bag. I have two great basestealers (both 86 bags last year), and the one with 17 speed had worse stealing % than the one with 14 speed. The trend is the same this year. I also have two 15 speed players that are set ++ for stealing, and they have around 10 SBs now. So speed is not the only factor and imo it only makes the game more fun

#25221	10/13/2015 10:35:30 am
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	@Newt But doubles and triples is also about Speed... which is the point I am making... all the abilities of a player are interconnected... but some of those skills are shown (Most of a batters skill) and some are not (like the most important -in your example a variable magnified by a coefficient nearing a value of twice itself).

#25231	10/13/2015 2:06:01 pm
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	Ok, but my point was that the original poster was asking if decent speed was actually better than really quick, and I have reiterated the point multiple times that really quick is better than decent speed, but that stolen bases are actually more directly linked to a hidden attribute that is not linked to the player's speed skill at all. That said players with that hidden trait and a higher speed skill ARE better than players with that hidden trait and a lower speed skill, but not just due to stolen bases but also extra bases off of hits. Steve has even said in the past that hidden traits not visible on the players' pages do exist. The easiest for us all to identify is the ability to steal bases (whatever we want to call it), as it is first seen in their minor league stats. No other hidden traits have been positively confirmed to my knowledge.

#25241	10/13/2015 4:20:42 pm
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	And I stated that the speed scouting report has NOTHING TO DO WITH STEALING ABILITY!!!! Because it doesn't. Yes, a faster player will steal more bases if their hidden ability is the same... just as a player with a higher hitting skill and the same relative power might hit more HRs because they make contact more. My point is, if you are looking for a base stealer, DON'T WORRY ABOUT SPEED since it is a secondary value to the outcome you are looking for.