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Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I used to think that Bat Control was important, but then I found out that placement is actually hitting. So if you want to hit homers, avoid double plays, lay down a good bunt, or get on base you need hitting not bat control. I could care less if they make contact every time if they hit it right at the shortstop. Even for a hit and run, I don't really want the guy to make contact if he's lining it right to the SS.
Slug5373
Joined: 12/23/2014
Posts: 376

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
100% agree Rock. Hitting and plate disipline are the two big ones for me, especially hitting.
dwindacatcher
Joined: 04/03/2014
Posts: 633

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
http://brokenbat.org/forum/0/2/1060

bunting is all about bat control.

I tried to find Steve's comments on what each skill means, but all I got was what he said in the above thread (he said that in a few different threads). maybe someone else can find it. i gave up after 45 minutes.
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I remember Steve said that, but it doesn't really make any sense. Making contact with the ball on a bunt is the easy part. The hard part is making it go where you want (placement). And as near as I can tell Placement = Hitting in this game. I wish the manual was more helpful in this regard. The definitions of Hitting and Bat Control are both vague and inconsistent with the feedback we get from Steve.

If Bat Control = contact only, then its not a useful skill. If its tied with placement and/or trajectory then it becomes more useful. But everything I've read points towards Contact = Bat Control, Hitting = Ball Control (Placement), and Trajectory Tendencies is a hidden stat. So if that's all true, Bat Control doesn't mean much to me.

Steve says its important to bunting and hit and run, but if its just a matter of making contact on those two thing, and hitting it placement, then to me hitting is the more important variable. I'm not a big fan off either of those tactics anyhow.


Updated Wednesday, April 8 2015 @ 6:56:52 pm PDT
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
BTW, according to the manual:


Hitting: ability to hit the ball and put it in play.

Bat Control: ability to make contact with the baseball, especially important for avoiding strike outs and successful bunting.



So that would seem to imply that Hitting = Contact, and Bat Control = Contact... See why I am confused.

My best guess is Hitting = Ball Control and Bat Control = Contact, but then that doesn't make any sense with the whole bunting thing.
Crazy Li
Joined: 01/25/2015
Posts: 879

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
Bat Control is making contact whether it be swinging on bunting... and in the case of bunting, possibly holding the bat in the right area in relation to the ball so you don't pop up the bunt. I doubt it has anything to do with aiming where the ball goes off the bat though.

Hitting is more of finding holes in the defense and otherwise hitting it where you want it to go.

This is my interpretation, at least.

You need bat control to hit the baseball and hit it cleanly, but you need hitting to hit it well. The two stats can work together where bat control helps you time your swing correctly for the pitch speed and location, and hitting allows you to line it over the IF for a hit.

Having high hitting but low bat control, I suspect would result in less balls put in play, but a pretty good BA on balls that do go in play, give or take the contact you make with poor timing that results in an easy pop-up.

Having high bat control but low hitting, I would imagine nets you more balls in play (and thus more opportunities to get on base be it from a hit or an error) but lower BABIP... probably a lot of grounders or fly outs.

In a well-made sim, I would expect every attribute to be important and neglecting one entirely shouldn't consistently grant success. I haven't played this one enough to know if that applies here or not, but I've certainly played sims where not all ratings matter and I've played others where they DID all matter.
Favuz
Joined: 02/26/2014
Posts: 630

Oxnard Sunsets
IV.3

Broken Bat Baseball
For me, bat control is not as important as hitting or plate discipline,nevertheless having having a good value in bat control is not so bad.
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
I'm definitely not kicking a guy out for having good bat control, but my feel is that hitting is more important. I'd rather the guy strike out then hit into a double play.

It doesn't really make sense that bat control would equal ball control for bunting and not hitting, but it certainly possible that is the way it is coded.
dwindacatcher
Joined: 04/03/2014
Posts: 633

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
I don't belive that direction of hit is actually coded in at all the way it is being discussed. That was one of the Steve quotes I was fishing for last night. Something about direction of hit is plugged into the algorithm and it decided where the ball goes in relation to any fielder, than what fielder, than if said fielder can make a play on it.

If I interpreted what Steve said, and remembered it correctly, it would at like so:
Batter attempts bunt
engine decided contact is made
Engine decided it is fair
engine decides what fielder makes the play
engine decides what said fielder does

So it isn't necessarily a bunt to third, or first, but a determination of the fielders that would make the play (1b, 3b, c, p) than decides who makes it.

Same for hitting, but it has to decide flyball/ground ball and if the players can make the play. I assume the engine also decides if a fielder can make the play with a bunt as well, but you don't generally see bunt go past a fielder like you do ground balls or gap shots/home runs.

I'll give another whirl at finding the quote tomorrow, but it was awhile ago and I don't remember if it was in discussion or help.
Rock777
Joined: 09/21/2014
Posts: 9568

Haverhill Halflings
III.1

Broken Bat Baseball
IRL Positioning is very important for bunting. If you hit it too hard its an easy charge for the 3B (or 1B). If you don't get it down the line its an easier play. If you hit it back to the pitcher. If you drop it too close to the catcher. Bunting is all about placement (just like hitting into a gap). You could definitely argue its a different type of placement, but given the abstraction of game elements down to 10 - 12 variables it seems weird to separate them.

However IGL the rules are made by Steve, so who knows. I would be interested in seeing what Steve wrote about it.

I would imagine making the play for a bunt would work the same as a hit. Making the play for hitting and bunting isn't the ball going past, its the guy getting to the ball. If the guy (team IGL) has high range he is going to be able to get in on the ball faster. Less range means can't get in on a good bunt in time to make the play. Less arm means he can't throw over to first quite as fast. Really bad fielding means he might bobble the ball. Pretty much the same as with a normal hit.

Updated Thursday, April 9 2015 @ 7:21:04 pm PDT


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