Broken Bat - Discussion Forum: Opinions on Two-Platoon System

Forum >> Discussions >> Opinions on Two-Platoon System

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function

#11600	11/07/2014 10:28:04 am
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	I don't think the issue is lack of left handed hitters though. My right handed ace 1590 RHB vs. 1621 LHB. So there are lefties (or a lot of switch hitters) on these clubs. My starters face approx. 900-1000 batters per season. Puts your ace just over 3 seasons. Not a huge sample size. Ie., if a couple of teams in your league had loaded up on LH, his data would be skewed. This guy played for my team for a while. He's the most experienced pitcher I could think of. Played for a variety of teams at a variety of levels. http://brokenbat.org/player/22646 He's sitting at 5663 LH and 6978 RH. Steve generally tries to model MLB demographics. I googled 13% switch hitters in MLB in 2013. I suspect the number is higher in BB, since we preferentially groom and develop switch hitters. Let's say 15%. For Avalos: 12641 total batters 1897 SH 6978 RH leaves 3746 LH or 30%. 2.7 pure LH batters on average in the line-up. Not that hard to PH / sub a RH vs. a LH pitcher. My team as an example. I have 2 LH batters on my roster. 2 SH and 2 LH in RH line-up. Vs. LH I sit the 2 LH. So a RH pitcher faces 4 LH batters. A LH pitcher faces 0. Sense of supply may vary though. I don't consider playing a LH thrower anywhere other than 1B or OF. The difficulty here is that those positions are ones where you can get away with a little less defense. So on my team, the LH throwing and hitting players have to fight all the RH hitting guys that have "below average defense" (these guys are often very good offensive players - able to overcome the R-L handicap). Some aren't as worried about positions. Bots don't care. Some players don't care. If you aren't picky about defensive position, its easier to get LH batters into the line-up.

#11610	11/07/2014 12:09:25 pm
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	My starters face approx. 900-1000 batters per season. Puts your ace just over 3 seasons. Not a huge sample size. Ie., if a couple of teams in your league had loaded up on LH, his data would be skewed. I would agree with this statement if my lefties numbers weren't coming from the same pool. It is still small and maybe I'm just running up against a division of teams platooning, but there is no way for 1 pitcher to get that kind of 50/50 split and another to see less than 8/92 without heavy platooning. This has to mean a majority of teams are putting either ~4.5 RH/ 4.5 switch or putting in some type of platoon as less than 1 batter per lineup is batting from the left side (far less than the 2.7 batter you say is normal).

#11632	11/08/2014 7:09:45 am
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Are we disagreeing? I can't tell. LH batters are heavily platooned in BB. Bots in particular PH like madmen. Everyone in their line-up is on 5/5 replacement. Your 2 lefties have the bulk of their career the past 2 seasons (small sample size). In 2018 you had 3 bots in your division. In 2019 you had 2. You are going to see a ton of PHs. This has to mean a majority of teams are putting either ~4.5 RH/ 4.5 switch or putting in some type of platoon as less than 1 batter per lineup is batting from the left side (far less than the 2.7 batter you say is normal). I don't get these numbers. Look at the example of my line-up with 2 pure LH batters. I only have to PH for 1 of those 2 guys to get a ratio similar to 50/50 and 10/90. I also think 15% is really undershooting the number of switch hitters. The team I played in the cup yesterday had a line-up with 9. While SH may make-up 15% of the potential player pool, I suspect a far higher % is actually being developed.

#11635	11/08/2014 8:21:41 am
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	My league had one team last season the was bot for a large majority, not two (not sure where you are getting that information from). We do have two currently and two seasons ago it was rather competitive so I'm sure their wasn't more than 2 than either. I guess my real question is; should there be a draw back to platooning? There is no cap and with 30 player rosters (compared to 25 in the MLB) it seems overly effective comparatively.

#11636	11/08/2014 8:43:28 am
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	I looked at the historical standings of your league. Apologies for the inaccuracy. I don't think it changes much of what I was trying to say. 17 position players max. At any given time you probably have a couple of guys injured. I feel you are overstating the possibilities. There is a HUGE potential drawback to platooning in BB. And that is scrambling your defense. I got a new player and forgot fix his management settings. He was playing 3B. With a 2 run lead in the 7th, my manager PH for him with an OF/C (Cain). This was the following half inning: Bottom 7th: Central Norshire Salazar takes the mound to pitch. Davenport comes in to pinch hit for Manning. Davenport reaches on an error by third baseman Cain. Michael grounds to first base. Davenport is thrown out at second by McDonald. Michael reaches first on a fielder's choice. Garcia comes in to pitch. Pena reaches on an error by third baseman Cain. Michael advances to second base. Cuevas flies out to right field. Spencer flies out to center field. That is why I personally do a fairly limited amount of pinch hitting. The more guys you replace, the more unrecognizable your defense becomes. Edit: I consider my LH P main job to knock LH batters out of the line-up, not so much to get them out. This might seem weird, but LH relief pitchers in the majors serve a similar purpose. Updated Saturday, November 8 2014 @ 9:07:25 am PST

#11641	11/08/2014 11:02:41 pm
Rdub29317 Joined: 07/14/2014 Posts: 82 Indianapolis Ducks IV.7	Another interesting stat, this isn't a new trend either, or a very realistic one. Looked into the historic stats on my team, and the great "Tricky" Manny Garrison has the most wins in my franchise's history with 172. Garrison made two All-Star appearances and played 500 games (431 starts) from 2001-2015, pithing 2,926 innings. He's also a lefty. Faced 11,478 batters in his career. 10,813 RHB, 662 LHB. 5.8% of batters faced were lefties. Found an MLB comp in terms of starts, innings and seasons. Mark Langston played 16 major league seasons, had four All-Star appearances and was with the Mariners, Expos, Angels, Padres and Indians from 1984-1999. 179 wins, 457 games (428 starts), 2,962.2 innings. He's also a lefty. Faced 11,057 batters in his career, 9,358 RHB, 1,699 LHB. 15.3% of batters faced were lefties. Even more modern example: Another Mark, Mark Buehrle has played 15 major league seasons. Buehrle has made 5 All-Star teams and been on the White Sox, Marlins and Blue Jays from 2000-2014. 199 wins, 486 games (461 starts), 3,084.2 innings. He's also a lefty. Has faced 11,925 batters so far in his career. 8,950 RHB, 2,975 LHB. 24.9% of batters faced were lefties. I rest my case Updated Saturday, November 8 2014 @ 11:05:21 pm PST

#11650	11/09/2014 9:40:50 am
Spoonerific Joined: 01/17/2013 Posts: 339 Inactive	Thank you Rdub for bring this up. In the MLB left hand starters are coveted as well (Kershaw, Bumgarner, Price, Lester, CC). I don't like that the solution is to force right side platoons with heavy left handed bullpens but it seems the only real strategy along with low hooks & pitch counts for the bullpen guys.

#11651	11/09/2014 11:23:00 am
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	My ace is a lefty and so is my closer. Although my ace is getting lit up like a Christmas tree in half his starts so far this season. He tends to be a slow starter over his three major league seasons he has had much better second halves both of his prior two. I disagree with the idea that there is a best way to set up your pitching, I think it works just as well to set your strategy based on the good personnel that you have.

#11653	11/09/2014 2:14:16 pm
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	I rest my case Hehe. What is your case? That MLB left-handers face more left-handed batters than their BB counter-parts? Granted. 100% granted. - there are more pure left-handed batters in the MLB compared to BB - BB / new human managers who haven't adjusted their settings have no problems pinch hitting for good left-handed batters, even if it means bringing in a mediocre RH that doesn't even play the position I haven't actually looked. I'd be curious to see what the stats look like for pitchers who spent their BB career in the upper leagues where all / almost all teams are run by skilled human managers. I suspect their ratio would be closer to MLB.

#11654	11/09/2014 2:17:16 pm
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5199 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	I disagree with the idea that there is a best way to set up your pitching, I think it works just as well to set your strategy based on the good personnel that you have. Agreed. While i really liked the 5 RH starter, 2 LH mid, 2 RH set-up I don't run it anymore. 1 of the LH mid graduated to the rotation, the other to setup. If personnel allow, its a really nice scheme. But its not worth giving guys sub-optimal assignments.