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Forum >> Discussions >> Velocity a negative?  

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function
#12115	11/23/2014 6:21:45 am		Ignore
Meccanodonte Joined: 04/21/2014 Posts: 370 Inactive	@Newt: control =/= command Control is the pitcher's ability to throw within the zone. Command is the pitcher's ability to throw a pitch wherever he wants. Unless Steve reunite them in the same skill, I would think they're not related. However, Maddux was an outlier. Generally more velocity is correlated to more strikeouts and strikeouts are huge part of this game, a riskless out. That said, no one could deny that there are several other ways being an effective pitcher. Updated Sunday, November 23 2014 @ 6:25:01 am PST
#12117	11/23/2014 8:22:37 am		Ignore
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Apparently I should've bolded my last statement in my post--my discussion about the super heater was about the real world/MLB, not Broken Bat. Most of what I referenced was baseball research, not my opinion. Research has shown that there IS a point where velocity becomes the biggest problem for hitters, which is 95 mph. And it's just common sense beyond that--what do the majority of the best strikeout pitchers have in common? A plus plus fastball. If you read the full articles/research, you'll see it doesn't say you have to be able to throw 95 mph to be effective. It says if you can locate a "normal" fastball that can still work, but it can't and won't compare to a 98 mph heater in most instances.
#12120	11/23/2014 9:28:06 am		Ignore
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	Mecca, you're splitting hairs there. Being able to put it in the zone when further enhanced is the ability to place it where you want. Where did Steve say that those skills were separated?
#12132	11/24/2014 12:18:43 am		Ignore
Meccanodonte Joined: 04/21/2014 Posts: 370 Inactive	Mh, actually not. Distinction between control and command, in real baseball, is not a futile argument. It'd be interesting to know how Steve implemented it.
#12133	11/24/2014 1:43:09 am		Ignore
newtman Joined: 11/02/2013 Posts: 3343 Inactive	Two things. First, this isn't real baseball, we're talking about Broken Bat. Second, your argument doesn't line up with what I've seen in game at all. A guy with 11 or 12 control can put the ball over the plate on a consistent basis and doesn't walk very many, which begs the question what improvement a 18 or 20 is on that if control only refers to ability to throw for strikes? Really I'd like to know your conceptualization of control and command though, because it seems impossible to have good command even as you are defining it without good control. Updated Monday, November 24 2014 @ 1:49:44 am PST
#12134	11/24/2014 5:49:51 am		Ignore
Meccanodonte Joined: 04/21/2014 Posts: 370 Inactive	I actually don't know if (and how) Steve implemented command or not in the control skill. I'm asking. Anyway, in real life, command is the ability to locate a pitch even OUT of the zone, if necessary (e.g.: to hitters who usually swing the bat vs. pitches outside the zone). Control is the ability to not allow free pass, but not necessarily this pitcher can locate a pitch wherever he wants. Updated Monday, November 24 2014 @ 5:50:22 am PST
#12139	11/24/2014 6:38:48 am		Ignore
ianheath653 Joined: 07/18/2012 Posts: 35 Inactive	IRL, unless you're a high-90s flame-thrower, velocity alone won't get you much. In addition to command/control being important, there's also the ability to vary speeds, even slightly, without altering your delivery in any way noticeable to the batter, as well as altering your delivery without altering your speed. And it doesn't matter whether your fastball is high or low velocity at that point. Living where I do, I was lucky enough to see Shunsuke Watanabe https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shunsuke_Watanabe pitch on a regular basis this summer. The guy would throw a "fastball" of anywhere from the low 80s to about 70 and everywhere in between without the slightest alteration of that bizarre delivery of his, or he would throw the same pitch at the same velocity twice in a row and somehow noticeably change how long his delivery took from one pitch to the next. Hitters just couldn't process it at all. That ability to change velocity and delivery independent of each other makes a much bigger difference than velocity itself for most pitchers.
#12142	11/24/2014 7:51:11 am
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator	In general, a combination of all three pitching attributes (excluding control & stamina) work best in getting outs. Without control, you'll have a tough time throwing strikes...so that's important too. Many seasons ago, velocity was probably too highly correlated with giving up homers. So that was fixed. Steve
#12154	11/24/2014 2:09:55 pm		Ignore
MukilteoMike Joined: 08/09/2014 Posts: 3294 Inactive	Two things. First, Steve was talking about real baseball with the Science of Baseball. Second, putting Brokenbat in a vacuum and not considering real world baseball would make Brokenbat worse. Much of what makes a good sim game is its likeness to the real game. Steve, thanks for that clarification. That helps a lot.
#12168	11/25/2014 10:50:36 am		Ignore
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	I recently had to cut one of these two guys.Goodwin - Caputo. I cut Caputo even though he's 2 years younger. Steve said above there used to be too strong a correlation between velocity and HRs. Although its been reduced, there is still a correlation. And that's fair - more ks, more HRs allowed. Personally I don't like that risk - reward and given a choice, I'll take a guy that puts more balls in play and gives the defense a chance.

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