Game Date: Apr 7th, 2064
Suggestions
Forum >> Suggestions >> Spring Training and injuries... 
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| Post ID | Date & Time | Game Date | Function |
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| #1486 | 09/10/2012 11:39:55 pm | ||
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shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive 
| @tc_ferdzz Ok... to address the desire for hyper-realism in general("cause...um...these things happen?"): Teams don't promote / demote in real life baseball. If you want realism you must be against that then? In real life a significant number of young pitchers get Tommy John surgery. Should there be multi-season injury here too? What about PED use? The playoffs + off-season lasts about as long as the regular season in real life. Should it be the same way here too, just because that's the way it is? For good reason there's no trading in Broken Bat... But that's not "realistic", right? Could go on & on for a while, but you get the point. Look, if you're for long spring training injury that's fine. But I don't think a realism argument is a particularly good one IMO. you don't want to run the risk of a player getting injured in a meaningless game...don't play him in a meaningless game... but why do you want to punish him (or anyone) for playing who he wants in the first place?? It's just an exhibition game... that seems like such a vindictive stance to take? what purpose does a spring training injury serve other than being a killjoy? i have yet to hear anything address that... |
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| #1487 | 09/11/2012 10:35:30 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator 
| Obviously in any game like this, there needs to be a balance between playability and realism. Promotion & demotion work well in online games because it tends to match up teams of similar quality over time. Injures serve several purposes…both in terms of realism and achieving a certain balance between teams with quality versus depth. Steve |
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| #1493 | 09/12/2012 9:56:03 am | ||
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tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive
| you mustn't of read my previous posts...cause all i've been doing is lobbying for more realism... the minor players maybe don't participate in actual minor games...but they do get experience for being there...if you put your developing players at the right league...they get better...like most real life players...it's not like you put em in the minors just cause you have no bench space and they stagnate...they do train and get better down there... spring training gives players a little taste of pro experience as well as giving a manager a look at where the player is in his development...just like in this game... having a 29 year old major league quality outfielder in league VI doesn't happen in real life cause there is no league VI...there is no tier system...at least not in north america...if i win my league...i get promoted...if a AAA team wins their championship...they don't get demoted...so that's a bad argument in your case... if Steve was to make it though that top tier teams could sign low teams players away from them (like a MLB team snatching a free agent AAA player away)...well that's just something i'd have to work around... "@tc_ferdzz Ok... to address the desire for hyper-realism in general("cause...um...these things happen?"): Teams don't promote / demote in real life baseball. If you want realism you must be against that then? In real life a significant number of young pitchers get Tommy John surgery. Should there be multi-season injury here too? What about PED use? The playoffs + off-season lasts about as long as the regular season in real life. Should it be the same way here too, just because that's the way it is? For good reason there's no trading in Broken Bat... But that's not "realistic", right? Could go on & on for a while, but you get the point." again...you haven't been reading my posts...i have asked that we not have a tier system...i'd prefer to have a bunch of 30 team "alternate reality" leagues...where it's like MLB in the sense that...you when the championship, congrats to you...you don't promote...you just work on keeping the players you got...replacing the players you lose...and maintaining the exceptional skill of your ball team...you get last in your league...you don't get demoted...you get first pick in the draft...and try to sign some free agents and develop your young guns to try not be last next year...i think these leagues would be easyish for Steve to manage as well...you only need to make enough players for 1 30 team league...and then they just get duplicated for however many leagues there are...there's no cross "reality" trading or signing... i have asked for multi-season injuries...i think it's a part of baseball...so why not a part of this game?...as for the length of the offseason and playoffs...i haven't argued about the realism of length...just the realism of what happens during that length...and i have also added for Trading...so all the points that you looked at as "attacks"...were actually things i want and so for...i'm rubber, you're glue...what you say bounces off me and sticks to you... a spring training injury acts as a test...and obstacle to overcome...what fun is a game where everything just happens smoothly and is handed to you on a silver plate?...would it not be a great feeling winning a championship knowing that your star was injured for a season and yet through the skill of your managing and creating a deep roster and the ability for your other players to step up in a crisis...you overcame this diversity?...sure...it's gonna be nice winning the championship anyways...but these dramatic events is what makes sports so great...they create story lines...they make it exciting... when the Blue Jays lost Jose Bautista...did the team look to the heavens and ask "why am i being punished for putting my power hitter in the game?"...well...they might of...but really...it's just one of those things...you work around...there season had no hope at this point anyways...mostly due to a crazy amount of injuries...who knows what the team would of been like with no injuries...but that's a moot point because injuries happen...and they did happen...a lot of Blue Jay fans were excited for this season...we seem to be in the upswing of our rebuild and had a optimism that we haven't had for a while...and due to injuries...we are once again near the bottom of the league...which is making a lot of fans bad mouth the General Manager for his losing team...which i find silly because who knows where we'd be with a healthy team...if they were this bad in the standings with no injuries...or even just a couple...but with the injuries they've had...it's easy to forgive a bad season and you just look to next year...which...is what i'd do in this game if you had the same injury bug run through my team... |
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| #1494 | 09/12/2012 10:14:13 am | ||
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tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive
| the tier system does have it's advantages...it gives entry level teams a change without being blown away by veterans...it gives someone to work towards instead of...win the championship...there...i'm the best in the league...i'm bored of this game...i've been playing Hattrick for probably 10 years now...i'm still only in tier IV...it's a little sad i know...but i have much to do...so i'm still sticking around... but i'm North American...our leagues don't have tiers...they have skill levels...but those are determined either by age of players...or the lower levels are mostly there as development leagues for the top level...and this is the system i've grown with...so this is the system i prefer... |
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| #1501 | 09/13/2012 8:50:13 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| I agree that it would be a lot easier to manage a flat, rather than tiered system. But I think I’ve explained the reasoning for the tiers – and you’ll note that other games like BuzzerBeater, GI and RZA all use tiered system even though they’re in sports that don’t traditionally have promotion/demotion. I am also from North America and was first exposed to promotion/demotion when I started following European soccer. Actually, I think it something that would be welcome in many of our sports leagues – I frankly think there are far too many owners that aren’t really trying to win. BTW, been playing HT for about 7+ years. Have been as high as USA II before, but am presently fighting to stay in III. Steve |
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| #1504 | 09/13/2012 7:11:14 pm | ||
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tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive
| not saying the tier system is a bad one necessarily and that you should change it...just saying i'd prefer the flat league system... actually...i do play a hockey manager game where it has a tier system for the "main" game...but then they also have private leagues that you join and they're just the one league...no promotion...no demotion...so you're allowed 1 tier system team but can join as many different private leagues as you want cause having a team in one private league won't benefit your team in another private league... my Hattrick career sorta...wasn't going anywhere...i have a whole "build from within" strategy which doesn't really seem to workout for the best in that game...my guys just don't train fast enough that building from within makes my team better...so i slugged through season after season making enough money to build up my stadium...now...i make about 10 mil a season so ever 1 or 2 seasons i can go out and buy myself a new star to patch a team weakness |
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| #1505 | 09/14/2012 1:00:49 am | ||
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shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive
| getting back to the main topic... "a spring training injury acts as a test...and obstacle to overcome..." No it doesn't. That's precisely the point. (Did you even read the first 2 posts in this thread??) Injuring a scrub / minor leaguer serves basically zero purpose apart from ruining others' enjoyment. In addition: "the minor players maybe don't participate in actual minor games..." Exactly. What's more... Your insistence on injuring other teams' players in spring training prevents them from playing in the few available games that exist now. It's not realistic not to see them play. Based on your rigid, fairly extreme stance about realism... you should only be for spring training injury if full minor league simulations are added. Otherwise you are actually *decreasing* realism in a sense. At least how about serving the preseason injury during the regular season? (as i mentioned earlier). Would be a more severe punishment too. (something you might like) having a 29 year old major league quality outfielder in league VI doesn't happen in real life cause there is no league VI...there is no tier system...at least not in north america...if i win my league...i get promoted...if a AAA team wins their championship...they don't get demoted...so that's a bad argument in your case... No, actually the principle of it still stands. It isn't "realistic" for a player of his age & skill level to play for your team. Not in such a low level league, vs. such a low level of competition. Even if there aren't tiers, you're surely aware that there are different leagues & levels of competition in professional baseball. A guy like that simply wouldn't play for your team. I have no problem with this aspect of BrokenBat & think it's fine as is. I'm just pointing out that while you hold a hardline / extreme stance on realism... when given a choice you don't adhere to your own stance in practice. (Inconsistency....) Now, a couple of questions for you. #1 How do spring training injuries make this a better or more enjoyable game for all? Not talking about regular season injury, which you've made mention of, just specifically spring training injury. This has yet to be answered in this entire thread. #2 Why are you so ardent in reducing others' enjoyment of the game? You know... Were spring training injuries reduced or eliminated... you could still hold your players out of meaningless games at random. Nothing would change for you AND you'd still be on an equal footing as every other team. (As not playing in spring training has basically zero long term consequence). While with the current system of spring training injuries there's no opt out... it's basically forcing your desires on everyone & who cares what they like individually... Spring Training injuries add zero excitement, zero challenge, & if anything decrease interest. There are no minor league games, so it would be nice to at least allow players to play in the limited number of existing spring training games. |
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| #1506 | 09/14/2012 1:13:15 am | ||
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admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator
| Okay…thank you both for your points of view. I don’t think there is much purpose to continue to argue the point…things just degrade and get personnel. >my Hattrick career sorta...wasn't going anywhere...i have a whole "build from within" strategy which doesn't really seem to workout for the best in that game... Yeah, the HT economy isn’t very stable despite being extremely large. Large price fluctuations over the course of a few season has caused the relative value of training to change considerable and has made simply buying a team easier than training and building from within. Steve |
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| #1507 | 09/14/2012 1:13:28 am | ||
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shikago Joined: 11/29/2011 Posts: 229 Inactive
| BTW, i'd prefer to have a bunch of 30 team "alternate reality" leagues...you don't promote...you just work on keeping the players you got...replacing the players you lose...and maintaining the exceptional skill of your ball team...you get last in your league...you don't get demoted...you get first pick in the draft...and try to sign some free agents and develop your young guns to try not be last next year......there's no cross "reality" trading or signing... But that game already exists! It's fairly popular & has been around seemingly forever. (Won't link it, & figure you must have stumbled on it at some point?) There you play in completely self contained "alternate reality" leagues, have an end of season draft ordered by what place you finish in / everyone scouts the same players, even have trades, etc. All the things you want. So I guess I'm wondering why you want to turn Broken Bat into a clone of that game? When that game already exists and is also free to play. (well unless you were unaware of its existence.) |
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| #1517 | 09/14/2012 12:58:23 pm | ||
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tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive
| as Steve has put his foot down...i will continue this argument no longer...although Steve...i never get personal...i always try to keep my comments professional and constructive...sometimes sarcastic and patronizing...but if so...it's not done as an attack at an individual but more that i think by being either sarcastic or patronizing...i can make them see my side a little better...but never a personal attack...but anyway...moving on i have never heard of this other game and would like for you to tell me the site...i'll more than likely continue this game...but if the other game has more of the features i'm looking for...i'd be very interested in playing it...actually...this is the first baseball sim i came across that wasn't a pay to play game... |
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