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MukilteoMike
Joined: 08/09/2014
Posts: 3294

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
I just had a 15 stamina guy throw 158 pitches against me and still just gave up 4 hits over 7+ innings. I know it's just one start, but that's just silly. 158 pitches. Really? Come on. There's no reason any pitcher should get a pitch count above 120. I can hear owners complaining, so how about 130? That is still considerably above what anyone gets in the real world, at least on a regular basis.

Oh and please explain this to me...again he has 15 stamina, threw 158 pitches, and still had 3 energy bars after the game. ???!!!Broken Bat energy/fatigue bars, not the consumable ones in the real world. That I would understand after 158 pitches.
EDIT/UPDATE--I was wrong about the 3 bars. I forgot I only had 3 games that day, so he had recuperated for a day to get to the 3 bars.

Updated Monday, December 22 2014 @ 9:31:53 pm PST
solace36
Joined: 01/10/2014
Posts: 60

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
Shouda demanded a drug test following the game. Those bars he's eaten... ain't no regular bars you can buy over the counter at 7/11.
Tiger504
Joined: 06/17/2014
Posts: 1314

Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers
IV.7

Broken Bat Baseball
I've seen guys throw a bunch of pitches at times but I usually figure their staff is worn down. Maybe I'm wrong. However, in the old days starting pitchers used to throw many more pitches than they do today and I think some of us prefer that model.
But I would expect his energy bar to be tapped out. Is it possible he had some rest between the game and when you looked?

Updated Monday, December 22 2014 @ 5:33:13 am PST
MukilteoMike
Joined: 08/09/2014
Posts: 3294

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
When are the old days you are speaking of? 1988 is as far back as I can go where there are records of the number of pitches. That gives 27 years of history. The only guy I could find that topped 120 per start for a full season was Nolan Ryan, and that was only for one year. He had 14 starts out of 32 with more than 130 pitches, which is the most I've found for anyone.

For some reason baseball-reference can only rank pitches per start since 2000 even though they have the number of pitches for games going back to 1988. At any rate, since 2000 there have only been three times where a pitcher averaged more than 115 pitches per game with the high being 116.7. And again, I didn't find any where a pitcher threw 130 pitches as often as Ryan's season.

Finally, about the old days, forget them. Comparing them to Broken Bat is basically the old apples to oranges thing. In the old days, a player could lead the league with 10 homers. Pitchers threw 50+ complete games in a season, as many as an entire league has now. Fielders had gloves that, well, weren't really. The pitching mound was several inches higher than it is now. Teams would bunt and steal like crazy. On and on. Games in those eras are completely different.

130 pitch limit is bonkers. And we can go 20 above that?!
Frankebasta
Joined: 09/15/2013
Posts: 881

Kodiak Mules
III.3

Broken Bat Baseball
Maybe, just maybe, he was referring to the "old days" of Broken Bat, when there was no fatigue for pitchers ( or so I understand)

Don't worry about the bar, tho.
For some reason, right after the game is over , the bar is not properly reset. It stays half way to the correct position.
If you look at the the beginning of the following game, or in the log of the following game, the correct fatigue is shown.


However, I'm bothered by this very same issue.

For instance:
During interleague play, 5 games in 4 days, my opponent was using a 4-man rotation.
The same player was pitching game1 AND game5 of the series. On a 2 (!!!) DAY REST. Unbelievable.
He's Stamina is only 13, not 20.
Still, he tossed 95+ for two quality outings.
Kudos to my opponent for exploiting a fallacy in the game.

But it is not realistic at all
Tiger504
Joined: 06/17/2014
Posts: 1314

Kalamazoo Bloody Tigers
IV.7

Broken Bat Baseball
It's silly to take this discussion all the way back to the early 1900's especially since that isn't what I meant but I will tell you what I did mean.

Some of us can remember baseball before 1988. It used to be that pitchers were trained to throw more pitches than they do today. The expectation for the starter was to finish the game and if you dig back a little further, say the 70s, you will find that reflected in complete games and innings pitched. The four man rotation was pretty normal. They were able to do that because that was the expectation at all levels. Somewhere along the way clubs started limiting the pitch counts at all levels of the game and moved to a 5 man rotation as the norm. I assume to try to avoid injuries but I doubt we could find any data to back up that it has had that effect. If you had Steve Carlton or Jim Palmer or Bob Gibson playing today they could go every 4th game deep into the game because that's what they trained for. Nolan Ryan is the only guy you could find because he's old school. He bridged the gap I am referring to. He did so because of his incredible longevity but he was also way past his 7 no hitters by the time they started keeping that stat. I would be willing to bet his pitches per start were higher in his prime.

Since its a fantasy game I think it's okay if it reflects multiple eras or even bears no relationship to mlb. I understand your complaint but I just don't necessarily agree. Hope that's okay with you. You can keep playing 2014 ball, I prefer 1975 myself.
mduban4
Joined: 10/08/2013
Posts: 75

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
Just reset my management to defaults so I can set it up again fresh specifically for the playoffs, and one of my players is recommended a pitch count of 150. Granted, his stamina is 19, but still, that is a little ridiculous.
I agree that BB can be whatever it wants to be and MLB only serves as a model, but 150 on a regular basis is just too far from realistic. I prefer to live for the most part in the present.
admin
Joined: 01/27/2010
Posts: 4980

Administrator
Broken Bat Baseball
I agree that by today’s standards a pitch count of 150 is extreme. However, if you go back into the not too distance past, pitchers really didn’t have pitch counts (usually got hooked based solely on performance). So I don’t want to really favor one style of management over another.

Go look at innings pitched of players up until the 80’s. Steve Carlton was pitching close to 300 innings every season in the early 80’s.

Steve
MukilteoMike
Joined: 08/09/2014
Posts: 3294

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
Yes, there were players like Carlton and Ryan who could throw all day. I chose those words for a reason--to match the scouting reports. A guy with 19 stamina wouldn't cause me much heartache throwing 150 pitches occasionally. The guy I referenced is a 15. Sure they could have him throw 150 plus, but the likelihood of him being ineffective late should rise dramatically along with the risk of injury.

Many of those real pitchers have admitted they took pitches off. They knew the expectation was to go 8 plus innings, so they would ease off a bit on certain pitches in certain situations to prolong their endurance.

These are a few of the reasons why you don't see that any more. It pretty much boiled down to one thing--pitchers perform better if they don't throw an excessive number of pitches.

If someone wants to abuse a pitcher, fine. It seems like there should be a decent risk coupled with that, though.

Updated Wednesday, December 24 2014 @ 2:49:34 pm PST


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