Broken Bat - Suggestions: players on bot teams listed as free agents

Forum >> Suggestions >> players on bot teams listed as free agents

Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date	Function

#811	05/27/2012 3:11:34 am
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	players on bot teams should be listed as free agents since presumably any player would rather be on a human controlled team bot teams are already releasing good talent by forced salary reductions. this is the next logical step

#815	05/27/2012 9:43:13 am
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator	Actually, I think this run counter to how baseball really works. In general, players are under contract and can't readily move from one team to another. In Broken Bat, a bot team many release players for financial reasons, but in general, they are not trying to dump all their quality players. Steve

#822	05/27/2012 9:09:48 pm
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	there is a distinction between real life baseball and a bb sim game if a player is controlled by a game player that player wants to be on the best team possible. no game player would allow one of their players ever to be signed to a bot team unfortunately Broken Bat has not yet moved to a model whereby game players control not only teams but the players themselves. that is why is easy to forget each player would want the best for themselves what I am saying is that bot teams are not the same as actual teams even if they compete in leagues against human teams. no one has anything invested in whether a bot team wins or loses, so why not make their players free agents to be signed by a human team that cares about their future training and development? I assume the model you are trying to move towards is all human controlled teams in each league

#823	05/27/2012 9:11:49 pm
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	I am not clear on the number of leagues and why special all bot leagues were created (such as PAC 10) could you create a webpage that shows ALL the leagues and how each feeds into the leagues above it???

#824	05/27/2012 9:13:30 pm
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	it would also be useful to be able to rate leagues against one another by such things as avg player age, years of experience, etc. from what I have seen to date the competition in the Legends (highest) league is not really that much different than in a V league where my team plays

#831	05/28/2012 4:17:40 pm
tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive	why would we be controlling players?...do real baseball managers control players?...no...they control their teams...try and get the best players for their teams...the players have their own minds and decide where they should go... i think the point you are missing in the term "bot team" is the word "team"...these are still teams...you can't just steal players from another team...there are ZERO leagues that work that way...in most leagues you can trade...in a lot you can buy...but you just go to a player and say...my team is better...come play for me...and they say okay... it seems as though you are trying to make this game as easy as possible instead of realistic...stealing players from bot teams...releasing all your players and picking up all new players in a single day...sports don't work like that...i understand the frustration of inheriting a bad team...but you know...the admin has said many times that if you don't like the team you've been delt...send him a message of what bot team you want to take over and he'll make it happen...why don't you just go look through some of the top teams for a good one and take over that one...me on the other hand...i like the challenge of turning a lump of coal into a diamond... in real baseball...or hockey, or football, or soccer, or anything...a GM isn't going to get fired if his team is successfull...unless the owner is kinda a tool and want's nothing short of the championship...his team comes in second...so the owner fires him...but as mentioned before...that owner is a tool...a GM is only fired when the team has been bad for sometime and needs a change...and so most GM's are only going to come into a situation where there team is one of the worst in the league...and over years...not months...not weeks...not days...they try to turn it around...and that's what i love about these manager games...taking a bottom of the pile team...and taking the time to build them until they are the best...if i ever get there...if you can just snap your fingers and all the bad players are gone and replaced with quality players and in the span of a week you are one of the top teams...that's just not as satisfying for me...

#839	05/29/2012 5:15:07 pm
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	why would we be controlling players?...do real baseball managers control players?...no...they control their teams...try and get the best players for their teams...the players have their own minds and decide where they should go... i think the point you are missing in the term "bot team" is the word "team"...these are still teams...you can't just steal players from another team...there are ZERO leagues that work that way...in most leagues you can trade...in a lot you can buy...but you just go to a player and say...my team is better...come play for me...and they say okay... it seems as though you are trying to make this game as easy as possible instead of realistic...stealing players from bot teams...releasing all your players and picking up all new players in a single day...sports don't work like that.. if only you would reply to the question at hand rather than speculating on the difference between a sim game and "real life" === it is true that not all bb sim games allow the game player to control the actual players, but in the better management type bb sim games the players behave as if they were rational agents, not merely interchangeable parts of a bot team bot teams only exist as placeholders until human managers can be found to control these teams. hence the goal of Broken Bat is not to help bot teams win since without anyone controlling how they are run such teams are not really playing the game (they are not in competition with the human players) the goal of any bb sim game is to help human teams win by creating a situation whereby the best free agents (and members of bot teams in Broken Bat) are able to be signed to a human team, and hence be part of an organization that is interested in training them and perhaps being capable of producing a winning or championship team === if players are treated as rational agents they would not sit out for months at a time when human teams are willing to hire them immediately. if players were treated as rational agents rather than sitting around and doing nothing related to baseball (even training) they would RETIRE from the game (disappear from the database) if a player is in the database it has to be presumed that they are still willing to play. the fact they end up entirely outside of the baseball world for months (seasons) is an artificial constraint imposed by the limit of hiring one replacement player per week other bb sim games give you the option to dump your entire team at once if you have access to enough replacement players (free agents) in order to do so. in most cases the free agents are not that high in quality in comparison to the current members of a team. that is the reason why new owners typically do not replace their entire team at once that is not the case in Broken Bat. there are plenty of better players out there who have been sitting around as free agents for months === there is nothing inherently "easy" about handicapping or scouting to determine the best players to recruit to your team. rather it requires a detailed knowledge of how the game works in order to accurately be able to pick players which can help whether my own team loses every game this season is not the point. the point is whether it is reasonable to expect a new game player to wait 20 weeks to get rid of his useless players and recruit a real team if new owners could get their hands on replacement players they would learn the game much more rapidly. as it stands now they can learn the game at the miniscule rate of one new player per week

#840	05/29/2012 5:20:05 pm
joelwest Joined: 05/09/2012 Posts: 0 Inactive	which is to say the only goal of a new owner (game player who controls a team) for the first 19 weeks under the current rules is to log in once a week on Friday, select a new player, and then forget about the game until the next Friday after repeating this process for five months only then can they really engage in playing the game (with their own players, not the useless players they were given to start with)

#841	05/29/2012 8:17:27 pm
tc_ferdzz Joined: 11/13/2011 Posts: 135 Inactive	what i'm suggesting though...is that i'm looking for a game that mimicks real life...that provides a true to life manager experience...you're looking for a game with manager "like" properties... do we know for sure (i don't remember if it's been said or not) that bot teams don't train?...what you are suggesting is that for a player to be on a bot team is the same as being a free agent...they don't train...they just sit around doing nothing until a human team signs them...but is this the case?...i'm lead to believe...with the bot teams in this game being competitive...that they are trying to do what they can to win...the only difference being that the bot teams follow financial limitations that we don't have to...and so the thing is...the players that play for bot teams are looking out for themselves the very same way that players that play for our team is doing...they are collecting the fake paycheque...a bot team beat us to the player in question...the bot manager said "hey...you're a good player that could help us win...we'll pay you so many dollars"...the players says "cha-ching"...transaction finished...it's the same with a human controlled team...we sign the players that we think will give us the best chance to win...we offer them a job...they accept the job... i agree that the 1 player addition per week is a bit rough...i think that there should be no restrictions to how many players you can add a week...but i also think that there should be contracts so that you can't release players when ever you feel like it and that there should be a seasonly draft so that you can't just bring in new young talent every week...but only X number of new players per season...and if they don't pan out to be what you want...that's too bad... i'm...in my opinion...a relatively new manager to this game...i joined late in the season before last...i picked my team on one thing...i'm Canadian...Ontario is a Canadian province...i know that the Ontario in the game is actually named after (i'm assuming) the city in Oregon...but it is a Canadian province and i am trying to represent here...hence the changing the mascot to the Blue Jays and bringing in a lot of young Canadian players...i haven't changed my team much...infact...for the 5 weeks or so before last i hadn't even brought in a new player...and considering the way that things are set up...with the ratings not being exactly accurate...one might actually have a better team than they first think...and so there is motivation to log in every single day (considering we play up to 4 sometimes 5 games a day) to look at the stats...don't rely so much on the ratings...but look at the stats...adjust your lineups...send down some players that look like they are playing poorly and give some others a chance...the more attentive manager is usually the more successful manager... i don't know if you follow hockey...but look at the NHL...the Coyotes are owned by the league...so you could say they are as close to a "bot team" that real life can have...but their players are still for the time being...the property of the Coyotes...other teams can't just come in and pluck their stars because they don't have a real person owner...they are Coyotes...and even if they want to go to a different team...they will continue to play there until their contract is up...and if they league was a bit more like this game...where players don't have the option of waiting until contracts expire...then they would have to wait until that team dropped em... as i said at the start...what i look for in a manager game is a accurate representation of what it would be like to be a real life manager...and in real life...when you inherit a team...you get stuck with undesirable players until you are legally allowed to release them...and are not able to bring in new players until the league dictates the time to do so...and so in this game...the Admin...programmer/designer of the game and GOD of Broken Bat...had dictated that we are only allowed (for the time being) to bring in new players once a week...then we work around those limitations to do the best job we can...that's what we like to call...a challenge...

#842	05/29/2012 9:19:54 pm
admin Joined: 01/27/2010 Posts: 4985 Administrator	Bot teams do train. Only free agents do not get training and experience updates. BTW, Ontario is a city in San Bernardino County, California with about 200k population. Although I think there are other Ontario's as well. Steve