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shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

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Broken Bat Baseball
@joel
well thought you're only supposed to have 1 team...
(& not sure what you meant by shell game in that context... can you elaborate?)

anyway, it really doesn't matter much after learning that attributes aren't completely accurate... but purely for curiosity's sake, how does seeing or not seeing attributes for other teams impact the learning curve in any way??? not getting that. the stats themselves (player performance) would still be visible to all.

(as for needing it to figure out the game engine... obviously a pitcher with poor control will walk a lot of batters, a hitter with low power won't hit many home runs, players with very high fielding will make less errors, etc... everything is seemingly fairly self evident. & if not a new owner can read the game manual where it's spelled out for them even further.)
admin
Joined: 01/27/2010
Posts: 4981

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Broken Bat Baseball
In the short term, I think we’re going to stick with a certain amount of uncertainty in displayed player skill values. As players get more time in the majors, that uncertainty will decrease. I tried to model this to what might really happen in real-life – players skills are roughly know by both his team and other teams due to scouting, however nobody really knows his exact skill levels.

In general, I think there is a lot of uncertain in baseball compared to other sports. In baseball, a good hitter might hit .277 one season and .332 the next season. Pitchers are even more inconsistent.

We could clean up the scouting reports as players get older…but really, if a guy has got 5 years of statistics, he’s pretty much a known commodity regardless of the scouting report, right?

@shikago - I don’t think he was saying he had multiple teams, only that this policy might encourage people to sign up for more than one team.


Steve
shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
i think i sort of like that in that case.
shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
meant i think i like the whole uncertainty thing now that you explained it. it's kind of intriguing.
(sorry for the double post, but there was probably too much uncertainty in my previous comment, lol.)
joelwest
Joined: 05/09/2012
Posts: 0

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Broken Bat Baseball
the whole point of a bb sim or following real life bb is to ascertain future performance from past stats. if the stats are never revealed in a bb sim luck is what prevails, not strategy

the potential bar as previously pointed as is meaningless since it is always at 50% no matter how old a player is or how much experience they have

based upon players I have examined in Broken Bat there is a lot more variance year to year than in real life MLB. of course it is hard to be precise since in BB a player's history shows the team name but not the league level

if stats were hidden (not merely intentionally not accurate) this would be make a huge learning curve for new players and encourage all players to own multiple teams (whether legal or not). if the only stats you know is your own your only strategy can be wild guessing, not an analysis of past performance to predict future performance
shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
@joel
ok, maybe i'm confused because you used "stats" to refer to both skills & statistics. (BTW, i was *never* proposing player statistics not being available to all.)

if you can, help me out with this example:
hypothetically... say you have a bunch of pitchers with exactly 19 control. how does me knowing that their control is exactly 19 lessen the learning curve? & how does my not knowing that compel me to own multiple teams? anyone who cares to look at your pitchers' stats will see that they give up far less walks than pitchers with average control do. and have full access to all your players' full statistics.

It almost seems like you're saying you need to own multiple teams to come to the conclusion that high control = less walks? maybe i'm missing something..

Like... it doesn't take owning multiple teams to find out that a player with "2" speed isn't going to run fast or steal many bases, etc...
That's why i found it strange you said "huge learning curve", that's all.
admin
Joined: 01/27/2010
Posts: 4981

Administrator
Broken Bat Baseball
Here's a question that I have been thinking about -- and let's just consider Broken Bat strategy as compared to real baseball (which maybe a little tactically deep).

How are you managing your team differently because you can see the scouted (approximate) skill values of your opponents players? What's the difference between having them hidden versus not?

Thanks,

Steve
shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball

and let's just consider Broken Bat strategy as compared to real baseball


What's the difference between having them hidden versus not?



Ehh, maybe it's not that big a deal. Especially with skills being approximate only. My initial thoughts though:

A big difference with being hidden vs. not might have to do with team building & roster make-up. So long-term strategy basically.

For purposes of keeping this not-too-long, think of BuzzerBeater. Imagine how different, how much less fun, & ultimately how much less strategy there would be if everything in BB were completely out in the open. Now, if someone has a bland cookie-cutter type team, they may see no big deal in letting everyone else know every last detail of their team. But all the *interesting* teams (rosters), strategies, as well as the more extreme player builds are only viable due to things being hidden. So i guess in a way the game becomes way more limiting in terms of going "outside the box". And becomes rather bland, to say the least.

Plus there's just something a little off-putting about me (or anyone) being able to copy a super-successful team's design *verbatim*, without any effort even!

Not to mention that in the short-term (opponent by opponent) it would completely remove any point to scouting, looking at stats & old games, etc... (why try to figure out what a player is, when *everything* is already fully revealed to you?)


So... do you think the BuzzerBeater comparison is fair to any degree? Just curious.

(for the how am i managing differently... it's mostly in minor ways now. and since all the best team's i've played were bots or abandoned, they can't "see" my players. so it's a 1-way advantage for me only at this point.)
shikago
Joined: 11/29/2011
Posts: 229

Inactive

Broken Bat Baseball
(btw, wasn't trying to say this game should be the baseball version of BuzzerBeater! just we're in the same league there and all there... so used it in trying to illustrate what i was getting at.)
admin
Joined: 01/27/2010
Posts: 4981

Administrator
Broken Bat Baseball
I think most of the strategy in BuzzerBeater is related to team design rather than changing in-game tactics. You are trying to get the best possible team within your financial constraints. In the upper division, it seems like most games are two teams playing Look Inside/MtoM.

And yes, when it comes to concealing team building strategies, I think hiding player skills is probably necessary (otherwise, as you pointed out, people would just copy other’s designs). In BuzzerBeater, training is much different (it’s more like it is in Hattrick). You can pretty much build any type of player you want because there are only two constraints (potential & salary). Although I can’t argue with the success of BuzzerBeater and Hattrick, I also feel that one issue they have is that players are all built in the optimum way and you don’t have nearly the diversity that you have in real basketball.

In Broken Bat, player training is more inflexible and is largely determine by his potential in each skill. Your choice is not how to train your players, but which minor leaguers to keep and which to discard and which free agents to sign.


Steve


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