Broken Bat - Help: Training Question

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Post ID	Date & Time	Game Date

#71787	02/28/2020 9:09:01 am	Jul 21st, 2044
michaeltodd2 Joined: 02/20/2018 Posts: 325 Paradise Valley Cubs II.2	I have a few players, all under 25, that have all promoted and played in the majors. After a few weeks of what I thought was sub par performance, I sent them all back to the minors - they all have skill indexes that are not filled. I expected that back down in the minors they would finish out their growth, but it's been 3 or 4 weeks and not one of them have had any growth in their skill points. Am I doing something wrong here, or am I being impatient? I was under the assumption that provided they were under 25 that I could send them down to the minors to finish out their training? Thanks.

#71792	02/28/2020 11:36:14 am	Jul 21st, 2044
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9599 Haverhill Halflings III.1	There is both Training and Experience. Experience is ONLY gained in the majors. So they won't gain any Experience while in the minors. This means they are only getting Training. But if they are close to maxed out on Training (which may be the case if the AI has recommended them to the majors for a long period of time), then they won't gain anything. Also remember that they have incremental changes each week. So a guy could be progressing for several weeks in a row without you seeing anything, and then suddenly pop in a couple skills. Updated Friday, February 28 2020 @ 3:24:46 pm PST

#77820	10/07/2020 11:39:33 am	Jun 15th, 2047
Ken_Kennilworth Joined: 11/26/2019 Posts: 400 Charleston Hawks II.1	@ Rock - follow up question if a player has the 'learned all he can" at AAA, is it better to bring him up even if he doesn't play? in other words: major league training without playing experience is better for him than benefits from staying in the minor league? and if so, would it be better to make room for the player on the major league roster for just the training update (Friday morning) by calling him up/moving down a veteran not improving any longer, then after the update, moving the player back down & recalling the vet? Updated Wednesday, October 7 2020 @ 11:40:59 am PDT

#77823	10/07/2020 2:10:52 pm	Jun 15th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9599 Haverhill Halflings III.1	"Learned all he can" is deceptive. I've had lots of players that I left down in AAA after they got that tag, and they continued to gain SI. In general you want to be a the "Correct" level. But between AAA and the Majors its a bit more fuzzy. Plus there is fuzziness in the manager recommendation to bring him up. I usually leave them in AAA because I have seen them progress well down there. Not sure if its optimal, but it doesn't seem to hurt much if its not. Updated Wednesday, October 7 2020 @ 2:12:42 pm PDT

#77824	10/07/2020 2:40:12 pm	Jun 17th, 2047
Ken_Kennilworth Joined: 11/26/2019 Posts: 400 Charleston Hawks II.1	^ thanks! as always your opinion is valued highly Updated Wednesday, October 7 2020 @ 3:12:13 pm PDT

#77828	10/07/2020 4:26:57 pm	Jun 18th, 2047
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	just chiming in, I pretty much always follow the AI on minors suggestions up through AAA, but I agree the AAA to majors jump seems very aggressive and I often delay and then work them back and forth a bit between majors and AAA when I finally do call them up. just like most talent gets to ride the shuttle bus the first few years they are brought up to the bigs. Here is an outlier, the AI wants this guy in AAA right now. I said no way: http://brokenbat.org/player/257530

#77838	10/08/2020 6:57:32 am	Jun 20th, 2047
Seca Joined: 05/05/2014 Posts: 5201 Waterloo Dinosaurs Legends	Here is an outlier, the AI wants this guy in AAA right now. I said no way: We've been told "optimal" training occurs at the recommended level. By keeping a guy in AA when he is rec'd for AAA you will incur a penalty to your training. Whether you are getting 80% or 60% of the possible SI is anyone's guess. But it's clear you are not getting 100%. But ... but ... I'm keeping a player below rec'd level, and he's still getting green arrows! Sure. The penalty is not "zero training"; it's less training. Why take less than the full amount? I've called up players (P) to the bigs with less SI than Reynoso, and they filled out fine. Conservative development philosophies are so fraught with confirmation bias .

#77841	10/08/2020 10:53:08 am	Jun 20th, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9599 Haverhill Halflings III.1	A minor but important correction. We've been told "optimal" training occurs at the correct level. We have been told that the recommended level is "fuzzy" and not always the correct level. So blindly following the AI recommendation may result in less training. Also "Training: is primarily gained in the minor leagues" from the manual, makes it a little less clear if you get more Training in the Majors than AAA. Why take less than the full amount? In terms of this, there are a lot of good reasons. Maybe you don't have room on your team for the guy yet. Maybe he hasn't learned his position. Maybe you would just like them to be a more impactful player when you bring them up. I'd rather have my rookies hitting .250 than hitting .200. If they are young, they will max out training regardless of if they are in AAA or sitting the bench on the majors. If they are sitting the bench, their position training will suffer. So why would you bring them up early? Reynoso might be ready to promote. But maybe the AI recommendation is wrong. He is so young, I don't see any damage done by keeping him down a bit longer. Its part of the manager's job to determine if he is really ready. The penalty for getting it wrong is a small penalty on growth. But blindly following the AI recommendation doesn't guarantee optimal growth. Updated Thursday, October 8 2020 @ 11:16:42 am PDT

#77843	10/08/2020 1:39:31 pm	Jun 20th, 2047
JohnnyBoi62 Joined: 06/21/2019 Posts: 356 Florissant Falcons VI.21	I have no proof but I hope that the game is not structured where ideal player development is a simple function of blindly following the AI. That would seem overly simplistic and a major buzzkill if it were. Like what do you need me for if I just have to log in and "follow the green arrows" to be the best possible GM? If you look at Reynoso's performance and characteristics, there's nothing indicating he is promotion worthy to AAA. He might end the year in AAA, but I'm not sure. I've never been this far at odds with the AI suggestion yet outside of the the AAA -> Majors suggestions which seem widely viewed as being too aggressive. By the way, promoting talent to the majors ASAP probably sets them up for earlier salary hikes. That may be worthwhile for impact players, but letting them get nice and filled out in the minors while giving them some reps here and there to start building XP while they straddle the jump to the big leagues may have some salary capping benefits. It's my understand that players max on XP (not training) purely based on big league ABs for players and IPs for pitchers. So say those first 500 ABs and 200 IPs are what it takes to max their XP. If I as the GM want to do that gradually and end up with a maxed out player at 26/27, that's a call I can make. For an elite player maybe it's a dumb call and it's better just to get that out of the way and end up with a great player for an extra season or two, no matter the total cost of ownership. But if I do that with every single promoted player, I'll always be operating with a portion of sub optimal players in my lineup, and may end up paying more because of it. For average joes I like to try and get them XP in fringe games (ST, late cup round play, garbage time at season end, perhaps matchup based when they're a little more proven). If things are looking good in that bring up process, a role is found for them and then they stay up. If not, they either keep floating around or eventually are shown the door.

#77847	10/08/2020 3:46:02 pm	Jun 23rd, 2047
Rock777 Joined: 09/21/2014 Posts: 9599 Haverhill Halflings III.1	That tradeoff between XP gain and team performance is one of the best parts of this game. There are plusses and minuses to each, so its really up to your own intelligence to balance the trade-offs for each player Personally, I am finding a lot of the AI recommendations to be a bit ridiculous right now. I am wondering if Steve increased the fuzziness on them. I hope that the game is not structured where ideal player development is a simple function of blindly following the AI Don't worry, that is not the case. Steve has previously recommended that new players follow the recommendations "until they get a better understanding" of the system. But he has stated that experienced managers can do a better job than the fuzzy AI recommendations. The AI recommendation is just the easy/relatively safe path. Updated Thursday, October 8 2020 @ 3:48:18 pm PDT